Please and thank you don’t violate barriers.

Sure they do. Some people don’t like to talk to other people, and don’t want to have to say these things. Hell, sometimes I say please and thank you to people I don’t even like, even resisting the urge to be rude because i don’t like them, but because I realize it’s the right thing to do. You’re basically agreeing with my point here, you are just putting the threshold of what constitutes a violation of a barrier at a different point, and arbitrarily putting some line at “space.” That invasion of barriers is okay, telling people that they should say please and thank you, but others are not. The argument is really a matter of degrees.

Let’s be clear, we both agree that you don’t always put aside your own wants and needs to please another person. But sometimes it just makes sense to do so.

So, you’d tell your child that “yes, you have autonomy in this, but your feelings regarding your need for personal space matter less than your grandmother’s want for a hug” is what I’m gathering?

No, it’s not what you are gathering. That’s just how you are twisting it because you are trying to win the argument rather than come to some mutually agreeable position. I’m explaining to them that sometimes you should put your own minor issues aside for other people. I feel like you are arguing the opposite - which is why you are putting this in my mouth - and saying that your desires and wants should always be put above other people’s desires and wants.

Do you educate your mother on the child’s wants/needs?

Absolutely. Quite frequently. Relatively, way more than having to guide my child in towards the right answer.

There’s a reason why people are educated that, as far as physical touch is concerned, nobody else’s feelings should be taken into account.

I wish the world was this black and white and that you should always put your selfish desires above everyone else’s needs and desires. Unfortunately, the world we live in is an incredibly grey place where most things are a matter of degrees rather than a simply “yes/no” and sometimes the answer is to put others first.

Like, for instance, if they don’t want to briefly hug grandmom simply because they don’t like the way she smells. . .well, sometimes old people smell different, and if we love them we want to show that love to them in their love language. If that’s by a huge, then we should probably strongly consider doing it. If they don’t want to hug grandma because they have some sensory issues and any touch is bothersome, so be it that’s completely different and I know my mother would understand that. But the black and white answer to this question is wrong either way.

People have identified that exact thinking pattern in why they didn’t report sexual assault from a family member. Because they weren’t taught how to properly say no and why the right to refuse touch is important, it was that much easier to abuse them.

I assure you my children are taught what is and what is not appropriate touching, and we have a very open relationship where we discuss things all the time. But I feel like this is a “humans are bad at assessing risk” type of thing. . .like you’re so afraid of the rare instance where a child abused, that you are trading that outside risk for the near sure risk of them not developing good relationships with other people, which is a powerful skill.

I mean, it’s easier if you cooperate, but clearly they don’t need your permission if they are quicker or smarter than you.

Who cares, just fucking do it anyway.

I didn’t say no one cares, I said it would be something i tell my children to suck up and do anyway. Just like cleaning their rooms, brushing their teeth, or dressing nicely: all things that will help them out, and be pleasant for those around them, even if they don’t particularly like them.

But apparently we’ve gotten to the point where im just being misrepresented. If you don’t want to see my position, I can’t force you to.