We are doing something, refusing to support another war mongering neoliberal.
So instead support a felonious warmongering rerun fascist billionaire Wall Street cock holster?
We play the cards we are dealt and put pressure where we can to force their hands. If every pork chop were perfect, we wouldn’t have hotdogs.
This. Cornel west and Jill Stein are not options in this. If you live in a safely blue state, go ahead vote your heart out.
But just know that there is no scenario where West or Stein win. If that doesn’t happen and Trump wins, we will not have another election. Trump is literally going to put the most evil anti democracy zealots into very powerful roles. And with a Republican scotus, we will be fucked. That is the outcome here. So you can be pragmatic or vote your conscience but the risk is that we will be fucked.
If there’s one thing that 2016/2020 should have taught us is; presidential elections matter not just because of who is leading the country but who is selecting judges and filling very important roles in the government. Ultimately, our lesson should be that things can always get worse.
One of Jill Stein’s major international positions is that the US should immediately withdraw from NATO.
Now, let’s ask ourselves: which parties on the world geopolitical stage would massively benefit from that happening?
TL;DR: don’t vote for Stein, under any circumstances.
I know hardly anything about West, though. But I agree that everyone pushing 3rd parties as a valid choice in the general has their head firmly up their ass.
our lesson should be that things can always get worse.
If you haven’t noticed things have been getting worse. And electing Democrats again and again hoping things will change isn’t working out so well. Their role is to protect that status quo, to ensure things DONT change for the better.
Trump is literally going to put the most evil anti democracy zealots into very powerful roles.
And if Harris continues to support what Israel is doing in Gaza, then we already have evil anti-democracy zealots in our most powerful roles, so what’s the difference?
Yeah, that’s basically what they want. They are fine with the new rabid brand of GOP fascism ruining the country and the western world.
Many of these people are the ones who chant “death to America.” They just want to burn it down on the chance that something better might replace it someday in the future. Never mind the fascism and death that would result in the meantime. They’re not shy of violence anyway, but it’d be easier for them if it’s someone else doing it. It’s why they support leaders like Putin and Kim - they may be objectively shit, but they’re against the west, so…
The naive idealism is just a means to manipulate otherwise well-meaning people into supporting their cause. I don’t like choosing the lesser evil either, but when full-blown fascism is on the ballot, along with even worse outcomes for Palestinians, it’s obvious what needs to be done.
Then who ya voting for there buddy? An intentional vote splitter? Captain Brainworm? Or the Russian plant Jill? 40k votes in 3 states was all that was between the death of democracy with trump term 2. Attempting to siphon off votes to 3rd party runs is at best hurting the country, at worst condemning it to collapse.
Bold of you to support the warmongering fascist instead.
At this point in the game, you either support Kamala, or you’re a fascist. Sorry, but the stakes are very high and very obvious, and anyone voting against Kamala is asking for tyranny.
Get with the problem, or else.
What is your opinion of the idea that this position may make you indistinguishable from a Trump supporter?
I’m not that guy, but my two cents:
Both the fascists and the communists want to overturn the liberal system, it’s about the only thing they actually genuinely agree on. Fortunately the actual full-on seize-the-means-of-production sorts are a vanishingly tiny percentage of the American population, and the two factions are otherwise completely antithetical to each other, with fascism being pure hierarchy and communism being no hierarchy. Liberalism in all its forms sits between these two extremes.
Lemmy, being international and non-corporate, is a small hub for the community though, with .ml (the more moderate ones) and .grad (the full-on tankies) being their homes.
I’m generally not worried about them. They know full well the fascists would literally try to eradicate them, that’s a primary component of fascist philosophy going back to Hitler. They also won’t be able to gain much of a foothold in the US until they can demonstrate a large-scale example of success somewhere, which is difficult when even China of all places has moved away from communist economic principles in recent decades. They will never stop hating liberals unfortunately, since we’re clearly not communist and stand in their way. We at least permit them to exist though, when there’s no McCarthyites running things anyway.
By definition, fascism is a right wing movement. You can’t be both blue and fascist.
So if I see a bot, I should treat it like a real person, because calling out bots is an “attack”?
What else is an attack? Calling out trolls? Do we need to act like they’re acting in good faith?
What about disagreement? Am I going to get in trouble for telling you that you’re doing a bad job as a mod for running protection for bots and trolls?
refusing to support
I think Ms Obama did mention the ‘goldilocks complex’. I feel she was speaking to the “I can’t support an imperfect option so I’ll avoid voting and ensure the conservatives win even though that’s the worst option” crowd.
If liberals want our vote then they need to provide better options with candidates that will earn our vote, and not demand it. But the better option would be for liberals to abandon their party which keeps shifting further and further to the right and embraise other options
You sound a lot like the German communists in 1932, refusing to support the liberals even though they had more seats in the Reichstag than the conservatives or the fascists. How did that work out for them?
