Just putting this here cause I found it a good overview of a pretty confusing situation I had no prior knowledge about
It always baffles me why some people can’t just fucking live and let live. If someone doesn’t appreciate your “joke”, then it should be a very clear indicator that you need to STFU, otherwise, it’s obvious you’re a dickhead.
Why does everything have to be a video these days ffs. What’s the tl;dr?
Cast:
- Vaxry: Hypr, Hyprland creator, contributes to wlroots and Freedesktop
- Lyude: member of X.org board, Freedesktop.org, Red Hat employee
- Drew DeVault: Sway and Hare creator, self-proclaimed Zig hater
- FDO: FreeDesktop Organisation(?)
Warning: Not lore accurate
TL:DR;
Vaxry’s Discord server for Hyprland was filled with edgy kids, calling each other LGBTQ+ related slurs - maybe they were from the community themselves, maybe it was a boy’s locker room. It was toxic.
From what Vaxry said, a trans user was misgendering his mod staff, so their pronoun was changed to “who/cares”. That was two years ago. Drew DeVault wrote a blog about it, Vaxry was pissed, shit happened. They discuss but could not come to an agreement; however there were a few changes. Vaxry apologized later about the incident, but he was not in agreement with political correctness.
Vaxry’s policy according to him is that he does not discriminate PR on the basis of people. He also created a CoC (mentioned earlier), but not many were happy about it being vague. But then, he also made a blog against inclusivity in FOSS, and calls them SJWs as a pejorative.
Vaxry lost his marbles when he got a mail from Lyude. Lyude used a Redhat mail, which was seen as unprofessional, and tried enforcing FDO’s CoC on Hyprland and other related project.
He sent back a passive-aggressive mail, which said “fuck off” in short. He also share Lyude’s toots in the blog about how Lyude supports bullying people for missing T in LGB, as a justification that Lyude tried bringing their past unnecessarily. Lyude sent another mail. Vaxry said that they don’t care, basically another formal “fuck off”. Finally, FDO yeeted Vaxry.
That’s it. Maybe I’ve missed a few details here and there. I did not read other’s blog, but Vaxrys’. And it isn’t looking good. In a way, this is also the abuse of power by Lyude, but looking at Vaxrys’ indifference, yeah, I wouldn’t have a positive attitude about that.
Source:
- How Freedesktop/RedHat harass other projects into submission
- Freedesktop/RedHat’s CoC team is worse than you thought
- Inclusive community activists are harming FOSS
Extras:
Edit: After watching Nico’s video, I’m convinced that Vaxry is a living, breathing turd. He crossed every limit. Good on him for getting banned.
I’m looking forward to when the Linux community, and society at large, has forgotten about noninclusive Transphobic assholes like this fuck.
I honestly don’t care if the work you’ve done saves the planet and proves you’re the smartest human to ever live. If Vaxry can’t understand why being sympathetic to the LGBTQ+ community by adhering to their conventions around identifying pronouns is a good thing, then he’s simply chosen to align himself with those who don’t care, i.e. Transphobic hate groups.
That’s the company he keeps now, and it might as well be who he is.
don’t care if the work you’ve done saves the planet
It’s not even that in this case. It’s a Wayland compositor not the cure for cancer. You have to be very socially tone-deaf to imagine people will overlook you being an asshole because of that. You have to be a billionaire for that to happen.
I agree but what I find weird is the fact that they treat humans like this. I mean I get missgendering or refusing to call someone by their pronouns but dehumanising someone for who they are is fucked up.
Trying to remain unbias, the super TLDR;
- FDO decided that they didn’t like vaxry’s community and told him to fix or action will be taken against him (Banning from FDO) for violating their (FDO’s)
- Vaxry said, This is my community, It’s not an FDO project, and is not under control of FDO, Doesn’t fall under purview of FDO’s COC, I will not be bullied. And posted the interaction.
- FDO’s COC committy didn’t like that and banned vaxry from FDO.
Time for my personal bias Im not sure how I can hide this other then spoiler, but ignore it if you don’t want my very bias opinion;
spoiler
FDO for sure over stepped their bounds. FDO did wrongfully invoke their COC against hyprland’s community, Their COC is extremely clear on it’s “scope” https://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/CodeOfConduct/ under which hyprland absolutely doesn’t fall under. That being said, OFC FDO retains the right to ban anyone from their services as they please (I’ll explain why this is extremely bad below). But they invoked the COC which is extremely important here.
Vaxry absolutely acted unprofessionally in publicizing this, on the other hand, I’m really glad he did because it’s insane that FDO is attacking the hyprland community in the first place, which is an extremely self isolating community. It’s very much “what happens in the discord is a discord thing”. Outside of the discord, hyprland community is perfectly fine. I’ve not seen a single “Hyprland fan” go around shitting on anything else (granted this is hard to judge since you need to be given context of someone shitting on something, to be a hyprland fan), on the contary, I have seen many people publically shittying on vaxry on multiple forums.
FDO was in their right to ban Vaxry for publicizing the emails, but I don’t think it was a good idea at all. They essentially punished Vaxry for airing their dirty laundry. Proving him right in the end. It’s important to note, that given context, Drew’s articles on Vaxry are insanely biased against him, with the intent to drum up hate towards vaxry (going so far as to imply Vaxry would call people the N-Word when giving support to people by using extremely misleading and cherry picked context)
The original emails are best explained by vaxry himself so check out his blog.
In the end, Vaxry acted unprofessionally and got banned for it, but FDO acted equally unprofessionally, and their actions greatly overstepped the rights they had (as far as enforcing COC goes, their original email)
Now WHY is FDO banning vaxry so important? Pretty much everything that matters in terms of linux gui development is on FDO’s services. Wayland protocol discussion, Mesa, Wlroots etc. by banning vaxry from these services, he is pretty much no longer able to directly interact with the wayland community. (At least not without ban evasion or someone else acting as a proxy)
EDIT: I forgot my conclusions.
I strongly feel like FDO is using their position as the people who control linux to push their politics unto others. Hence Vaxry’s original blog post How Freedesktop/RedHat harass other projects into submission
Great video from brodie, Regardless of where you stand on the issue, This video is an unbiased and decent take.
I honestly, but respectfully, disagree.
Brodie has been playing the apologist lately, and finding himself on the defensive when Nicco criticized Brodie for giving a floor to Lunduk, who is another example of a toxic individual within the Linux community. Brodie basically has played the card , “I’ll hear out anybody because it’s important to get both sides of the story.”
But imho it shows he lacks spine to take a real stand. I get why, he needs to retain his audience which is a mix of people from different political and social backgrounds. I just don’t respect it.
This latest video of his shows exactly his own reasoning. He says something along the lines of, if you take a position, you’re going to lose a lot of your audience. He was talking specifically about the FDO iirc, but he might as well have been talking about himself.
I do have some sympathy for Brodie, I’ve been following him from almost his first video when he was still in Uni showing off his BSPWM configs, etc. And I don’t think he ever thought his channel would become politicized nor do I think he ever wanted to address his own political leanings on his channel. But in my own life I’ve just noticed you can’t avoid that, even in a public platform. Everything is political, and if you don’t show people who you stand with, (like solidly, on one side or the other, you CANNOT have it both ways) then you just are saying you’ll sit on the sidelines while the people you’re supposedly advocating for (the Linux community) burn from within.
Until he’s willing to have Danielle Fore (Trans Developer on the Elementary OS Distro) on his Tech Over Tea Podcast, I’m going to say he’s giving a lot more attention and positive exposure to toxic people than not. And he’s not exactly actually on Both Sides, like he wants us all to believe.
But imho it shows he lacks spine to take a real stand. I get why, he needs to retain his audience which is a mix of people from different political and social backgrounds. I just don’t respect it.
I really don’t think he should take a stand, This is why I actually like him a lot more then pretty much any other linux youtuber. With him I don’t need to worry about retarded distro takes, stupid drama takes. Just information.
Until he’s willing to have Danielle Fore (Trans Developer on the Elementary OS Distro) on his Tech Over Tea Podcast, I’m going to say he’s giving a lot more attention and positive exposure to toxic people than not. And he’s not exactly actually on Both Sides, like he wants us all to believe.
Im not sure who that is, Was there some kind of drama involved here? It never made it across my feed personally and being honest, due to my recent findings of new time, I’m partially suffering terminally online syndrome. Not to sound demeaning, but I genuinely have no idea who Danielle Fore is outside of the small tidbit you just brought up. Can you tell me more about them?
I really don’t think he should take a stand, This is why I actually like him a lot more then pretty much any other linux youtuber. With him I don’t need to worry about removed distro takes, stupid drama takes. Just information.
That’s fair. I just don’t see this as stupid drama. If someone is being a hateful bigot, and that is not an opinion it is simply a fact here, then that is the information Brodie should report, using rhetoric that reflects that. From my point of view, Brodie is either avoiding the certain left leaning politics because he’s actually right wing, or he’s too afraid to admit he’s left wing because he’ll lose a good chunk of his audience. Either way he’s lost my respect.
Im not sure who that is, Was there some kind of drama involved here? It never made it across my feed personally and being honest, due to my recent findings of new time, I’m partially suffering terminally online syndrome. Not to sound demeaning, but I genuinely have no idea who Danielle Fore is outside of the small tidbit you just brought up. Can you tell me more about them?
Danielle Fore is a lead UX/UI developer on the Elementary OS Distro who has documented her transition on Mastodon. She fields both technical and sociopolitical questions on her Mastodon account. She recently received some attention due to SwitchedToLinux spouting anti Trans rhetoric on his channel specifically referencing her, with both Trafotin and Nicco responding very negatively against SwitchedToLinux for that.
Her technical chops are up there with the best of them, especially when you consider ElementaryOS being known for their clean UX/UI design. If Brodie wants to truly take the mantle of an unbiased information only Linux influencer, then he should be covering the facts across the board, including her or at least someone who can speak from experience on the more than occasional occurrences of misogyny and transphobia that crops up in the Linux community.
Unlike Trafotin and Nicco, Brodie has chosen to handwave away this serious problem as drama while continuing to give a platform to those that are the toxic perpetrators of said rhetoric. All I ask is where is he platforming those who offer up counterarguments? People who are going to call it out for the toxicity it is? No? Nobody… Guess that speaks to the company he’s willing to keep and the company he’s not willing to. And honestly that doesn’t appear to be unbiased and willing to hear both sides. And it’s not even just presenting the facts. It’s hand picking them.
It is so stupid… Why make drama instead of making linux better as a whole. A sad thing to see in general.
American culture warriors have decided that their ideology is more important - you see this a lot where their ideology’s goal becomes the “greater cause” worth sacrificing the mission: e.g. in journalism.
Yeah, whatever. If you don’t like the community, you leave it. Or make your own unofficial community with blackjack and hookers. As simple as that.
That’s a very low effort way of underplaying the effect of these communities on the broader FOSS communities. There is a good reason why most FOSS developers/maintainers prefer to keep their personal and unrelated politics away from their project communities. For one, unchecked bigotry in isolated communities can turn bad for the general public - for example, 4chan, kiwifarms, etc. I have heard from more than one source that community engages in hate speech and brigading against people outside the communtiy - one example is visible in this video itself. This is why laws specifying limitation to free speech exists.
Now, even if you neglect the brigading, there is still the problem of support and contribution. Hyprland is a widely used project. Many end users and developers are going to stumble into the discord server either seeking support or with intent to contribute. If they belong to any minority group, they might inadvertently expose themselves to bigotry, bullying and harassment. Now you may be compelled to label this as hyperbole and fearmongering. But this is well known, highly underplayed problem in FOSS communities with numerous examples. There are so many cases where women stopped FOSS contributions because they felt insulted and harassed. This problem is why CoCs exist in the first place.
Nobody can force others to follow CoCs. But as Brodie says, it has become very important for end users to evaluate the projects they use - to see if it is a community they want to ever interact with. Similarly, distros need to decide if they want to expose their users to such a community.
