67 points

Fascism is simply Capitalism when the Capitalists succeed enough

permalink
report
reply
3 points
*

One is a form of economy, the other is an ideology of societal oppression. Fascist governments have run capitalist, communist, and socialist economies. Historically, more fascist governments have developed from socialist nations than capitalist. That doesn’t make fascism inherently socialist either.

The meme would be more accurate in stating that fascism is a failure of democracy than capitalism.

permalink
report
parent
reply
-1 points

Fascism is inherently capitalist, the communist “version” is called national communism or national bolshevism

permalink
report
parent
reply
12 points

National bolshevism is not communist version of fascism, it’s neonazi ideology and it’s anticommunist too just trying to coopt the aesthetics.

permalink
report
parent
reply
11 points

That’s not really accurate, fascism is specifically a reactionary attempt to “turn the clock back” to “the good old days,” it’s focused on class colaborationism and nationalism.

Fascism is wholly anticommunist.

permalink
report
parent
reply
-3 points
*

There’s nothing specific about fascism. The term was coined during Mussolini’s reign, and has taken many forms since. Kershaw famously wrote that “trying to define ‘fascism’ is like trying to nail jelly to the wall.”

The only consistent components of fascism are an autocratic government and a dictatorial ruler, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible nationalism through suppression of opposition.

permalink
report
parent
reply
-1 points

Interesting. I think you have a point.

permalink
report
parent
reply
0 points
*
Removed by mod
permalink
report
parent
reply
4 points

The post you replied to has serious issues, please see the other replies for more info.

permalink
report
parent
reply
2 points

This is just false. There’s no interpretation of ‘communist economies’ that applies to any fascist state ever. Two of the core characteristics of fascism are anti-liberalism and anti-Marxism, which covers basically all socialism. Fascist leaders (even the national-syndicalism types like Mussolini) have an odd relationship with capitalism, but ultimately I don’t believe they moved towards socialism either.

Historically, more fascist governments have developed from socialist nations than capitalist.

Apart from Francoist Spain, I can’t think of a single example of a fascist government which succeeded a socialist government.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fascist_movements_by_country

permalink
report
parent
reply
52 points

Not entirely.

Germany wasn’t having a very successful economy when Nazism started.

Nor did Italy or Spain.

permalink
report
parent
reply
48 points

That relies on the assumption that what’s good for the economy is good for the capitalists, they always make sure that capitalism occasionally goes up in flames to take advantage of social unrest.

permalink
report
parent
reply
4 points
*

Considering the capitalists have forced the world to arbitrarily measure the “economy” by measuring how willing rich people are to play in the rich man casino…

permalink
report
parent
reply
25 points

That’s the point.

In Germany there was a battle between left and right back then. The economy boomed in the 20s and faltered in the 30s. Capitalists saw the threat of socialism looming just behind Poland and so they supported fascism.

The Nazis funneled billions into large businesses. It was unsustainable and morally multi-level wrong, but they skimmed a lot of profits from these agreements. They got rich, while the economy started to collapse - even before the war.

Even after the war, most of them got away. They kept much of their wealth.

permalink
report
parent
reply
5 points

In fact, fascism often gains support from middle class desperation, with the blessing of the booj who prefer it over communism (which tends to rise from the lower classes during similar times of desperation)

permalink
report
parent
reply
5 points

And unregulated hyper-capitalism is what happens when communism fails

permalink
report
reply
3 points

Yes, which is why it is important to protect communist projects from capitalist backed coups, like the presidential coup that illegally and undemocratically dissolved the USSR

permalink
report
parent
reply
-4 points

Quite funny of you to mention undemocratic in the context of the USSR, as if it had been a democracy even one day of its existence. And about illegal, most of the times a country and its constitution is absolved its technically illegal. I can only think of the German constitution that actually has clauses on how to legally phase it out.

permalink
report
parent
reply
1 point
*

as if it had been a democracy even one day of its existence

It was literally a democracy for its entire existence. Now, during the last couple decades it wasn’t as democratic as proletarian democracies like Cuba Vietnam and China, but it was still more democratic than bourgeois “democracies”

And about illegal, most of the times a country and its constitution is absolved its technically illegal.

Okay but was it good that the Russian president ordered tanks to bombard the Soviet parliament building until the parliament surrendered? Is that your take? Even when it led to the installation of “bourgeois” democracies and a humanitarian crisis not seen outside of war?

Just now the nations which made up the USSR are meeting old life expectancy metrics. And that is uneven, some of them still haven’t, some of them are doing better.

Also LOL you are German, you’d know a thing about reducing Soviet life expectancy. Your nation killed more than 25 million Soviet citizens, 1/6 of the total population. Maybe you have an imperative to do some research on what Soviet democracy was from their perspective instead of regurgitating anticommunist shit out your mouth like a good little anti-communist German.

permalink
report
parent
reply
3 points

What do you mean by the USSR not being democratic? They practiced Soviet Democracy.

permalink
report
parent
reply
6 points
*

There was a fucking referendum where people voted for not dissolving the Union and it was ignored. It can’t go more undemocratic than that.

permalink
report
parent
reply
13 points

Yes, sadly. During the dissolution of the USSR, millions of people died, literacy rates plumetted, safety nets were plundered by opportunistic Capitalists, and the State was sliced up and sold for parts. This privitization was a disaster for the common worker.

permalink
report
parent
reply
5 points

I’m sure after decades of capitalism they are doing fine now… right?! Oh no

permalink
report
parent
reply
4 points

Technically, they are just now approaching the metrics they had in the USSR, so they are getting there! Just slowly and unequally.

permalink
report
parent
reply
1 point

Russia has had a tough ride since 90ties of the last century which is pretty much explained by this.

permalink
report
reply
0 points

More like since 1924

permalink
report
parent
reply
7 points

There was a drastic drop in life expectancy, housing rates, lots of starvation and excess deaths, and drops in literacy rates and so forth following the collapse of the USSR. The rise of the USSR was a drastic improvement upon Tsarism, and the fall of the USSR was a drastic decrease.

The USSR absolutely had its own set of issues, but the collapse of the USSR in the early 90s represented a massive setback that only recently the Russian Federation has begun to overtake, metric-wise.

permalink
report
parent
reply
-1 points

1924 is when Stalin took power, not when the USSR was founded. Put I guess it’s true that he improved the situation in Russia with imperialism to it’s neighbors so technically for Russia itself it was a pretty good ride still.

permalink
report
parent
reply
9 points

Bro, they’ve had a tough time since like…the entirety of their history.

permalink
report
parent
reply
6 points

One’s an economic school of thought, the other a political one, so obviously you can have both at the same time or even working together. Coincidentally corporate business is mostly anti-fascist right now because social diversity and progressiveness is where the money’s at

I can only guess you’ve used one of the words out of context. If it was fascism, I have nfi what the meme is trying to say by linking Superman to capitalism in the same way Homelander is easily linked with fascism.

If the joke instead about fascism, then maybe something positive and relatable to it would make sense. Patriotism is what I think of since Superman loves America, but shows little concern for anyone else and this sentiment could start festering domestically, especially if the love for country becomes ultra-nationalistic.

permalink
report
reply
2 points

There is a saying, something along the lines of ‘politics is the shadow that economics casts over society’. Now obviously there is no one to one correlation between a country’s economic and political systems, but rich people often respond to calls for economic reform by trying to make the public fight among themselves. Fascism is one possibility, ‘culture war’ is another, bread and circuses a third, and so on.

permalink
report
parent
reply
-2 points
*

Trying to think of that one time fascism was economically beneficial to capitalists… Nope. I can’t recall one.

Edit: Oh, wait. If you were supplying a side against fascism, it’s always been very beneficial. I know that’s in contrast to the meme, but supports your point in a “round peg; square hole” kinda way.

permalink
report
parent
reply
1 point

Trying to think of that one time fascism was economically beneficial to capitalists… Nope. I can’t recall one.

Almost all fascist politicians were supported by local elites who thought they could control them. Sometimes they could; sometimes the fascists got too strong to be controlled.

permalink
report
parent
reply
5 points
*

This meme’s got the spirit, but not a great visual metaphor

permalink
report
reply
4 points

Why ?

permalink
report
parent
reply
2 points

Both images should be homelander.

permalink
report
parent
reply
5 points

That’s the point of having two similar yet distinct characters. Most people don’t look at capitalism and see fascism, they appear distinct to most, so having them both be Homelander would be a poor visual analogy.

permalink
report
parent
reply

Memes

!memes@lemmy.ml

Create post

Rules:

  1. Be civil and nice.
  2. Try not to excessively repost, as a rule of thumb, wait at least 2 months to do it if you have to.

Community stats

  • 9.2K

    Monthly active users

  • 6.5K

    Posts

  • 48K

    Comments