What do you mean “ex-believer”? I still use Linux every day.
What you guys are referring to as Linux, is in fact, GNU/Linux, or as I’ve recently taken to calling it, GNU plus Linux. Linux is not an operating system unto itself, but rather another free component of a fully functioning GNU system made useful by the GNU corelibs, shell utilities and vital system components comprising a full OS as defined by POSIX.
I read the Bible. I started asking questions about things in the Bible that didn’t match science, I loved science (still do), but nobody wanted to answer my questions, they’d just get mad, so I started seeking information elsewhere and came across atheist or ex-religious sources who answered the questions I had. Those sources also helped me realise the damage that had been done to me mentally, which I’m still working on overcoming.
I admit I haven’t read the entire Bible. I’m not a particularly pious Christian, and I certainly don’t mean to try to convince anyone towards or against religion. Certainly, religion has its problems. That said:
I also love science. I’m an engineer, not a conspiracy theorist. I know the dinosours existed, I know evolution happened, I know the Big Bang was a thing. However, that doesn’t mean Jesus wasn’t a man who lived approximately 2000 years ago. It doesn’t mean he wasn’t a great teacher. It doesn’t mean there aren’t lessons to learn in any of the Bible’s stories.
Because that’s what they are: stories. They’re not 100% perfect recounts of events that happened. Heck, they’re most of the time not even 1% perfect recounts of events that happened. But some of them still have some wisdom worth sharing, just the same. At least, I think so.
Someone read those books thoroughly and decided they are not worth the cost of staying in a damaging situation.
You have not read them and yet you to want to defend stories you don’t think are true, but might have some little pearls of conventional wisdom? And just gloss right over that the religious trauma caused them serious harm they are still recovering from?
Just pointing out that your luke warm defense of your favorite children’s stories in this context comes across as extremely tone deaf.
I appreciate your response and the other person who replied to you is right as well, but I wanted to add that I can “appreciate” Bible stories the same way I can appreciate other myths or legends, many of which the Bible stories originated from. I love mythology, it fascinates me, especially seeing who borrowed from who, but that doesn’t make them real or worth worshipping.
Absolutely not, I 100% agree.
To your point about who borrowed from who - one of my favourite examples is the story of Noah’s Ark, or less specifically, “The Great Flood”. So many religions and mythologies have a Great Flood story. It’s fascinating to see how similar or different certain people’s recounts were of historical events like that.
Like I say, at this point in my life I’m still of the opinion that a good chunk of the Bible means well, but who knows? One of these days I might run out of sci-fi novels to read and go cover to cover, old testament to new. It’s certainly possible my mind might yet change.
My mother refusing treatment for cancer when it was still in early stages, Jesus will cure it for sure
Two things started the slow 10ish year journey to atheism for me. I can’t remember which happened first.
Some Mormon lads doing their mandatory missionary work knocked on our door when I was home alone. I decided, screw it, kill them with kindness. Maybe I’ll convert them! After I got them some ice water, they started the spiel. It was so stupid, how could anyone believe this? Then I thought, wait, how is what I believe any more believable? That was an unsettling thought that I could never really shake.
I also challenged myself to read the entire Bible (NIV) front to back (which I did, thankyouverymuch). I already had a lot of apologetics for the pentateuch warfare, slavery, etc. but in Psalms there’s a verse that basically goes, “blessed is he who dashes the babies on the rocks.” And like. What the fuck is that. In what possible circumstances is killing babies okay, let alone with God’s explicit endorsement? That also stuck in my head ever since.
There was a lot else in between, but years later I stumbled into a copy of The God Delusion. “Know thine enemy, right?” So I read it on lunch breaks at work. While I now know the book has a reputation for kinda bad philosophy, by the end it had tidily dismantled the last vestiges of the purely “rational” arguments to believe in God I still had. So I sat there, an atheist for the first time in my life.
I remember that exact same verse! I had had multiple traumatic happenings in life and tried to study Bible to soothe my mind and find some answers. I read the whole thing and hoo boy was it eye-opening! I tried reading apologetics to allay my doubts but they seemed like dodging the questions and didn’t provide satisfying answers. Then I started reading stuff with historical critical approach and it started to make sense. I fell away from Christianity. Then I read other “holy” scriptures just make sure I wasn’t missing something and realized that they all had cool stories but that’s about it. So, I decided to rebuild my world view on something that wasn’t based on wishful thinking… and I’ve been a content atheist for 15 years.
The people. Family, their friends, the church people, the religious school people. Everyone. Toxic. And it took me far too long to figure out how wrong it all was and how so much judgement and hate and shame and guilt and manipulation was not normal.
None of my community raised an effective adult. But they sure tried to raise an indoctrinated subservient guilt-riddled sack of shit.
Fuck religion and fuck people who pressure it on others, especially children, and so many of them use it all as an excuse to cover the fact they are ultimately just shitty people.
Thanks to them I feel like 2 decades of my life were stolen from me and I had to relearn and grow up a lot in my 20s to get out of it.
Sure is interesting in religion how there’s a neverending amount of pointing at YOUR need to change, but none of those pointing ever seem to change or improve as humans.
The meanest people I have ever known were church people. My dad left us when I was young, my mom was left a single parent. Seeking refuge in the church, we started attending regularly. In that time I felt things from others, ranging from genuine kindness all the way to pity. However, as things progressed and my mother became more involved with the church, the more people started to talk. From casual mentions, to annoyance that she would show up, to talking behind her back.
Was she super pleasant to be around? No, I think she can be awkward and has a hard time making friends - and those people picked up on that and ran with it. It wasn’t so long until she was excluded from certain events, that there were more “special” bible studies that she would her invite would be “forgotten”. She wanted so much to be included, but she didn’t fit their paradigm of… I don’t even know what.
Oh they preach of acceptance and forgiveness, of not judging, but they are some of the most hurtful people out there. I don’t know what I believe personally, but I’ll avoid going into a church for as long as I can.
Your story is all too common, and I saw a lot of this growing up. I was there as a child overhearing the comments about people. Seeing and hearing my parents and church and school leaders talking shit behind backs, amd being judgy as hell towards anyone and everyone.
Yes, God forbid you seem like a burden or “different” in any way. Their “acceptance” of you will come with a lot of caveats.
I’m glad for your sake and your life you are aware and see it for what it is. You’re better off.
This was the primary reason for me leaving the church, but I had begun my whole “deconstruction” journey years earlier. Between losing my belief and losing my religion, I was there to be a good influence on the true believers. I eventually realised it was useless to do so, that these people who I once considered friends were actually just horrible people. I’m embarrassed how long I really ignored some toxic beliefs and actions just because the people committing them were doing so “for sincerely held beliefs”. Trump and Covid were the real catalysts just because the way and the speed of their “mask off” transition made it obvious even to a socially inept person like me that they were just bad people.
