A while back there was some debate about the Linux kernel dropping support for some very old GPUs. (I can’t remember the exact models, but they were roughly from the late 90’s)
It spurred a lot of discussion on how many years of hardware support is reasonable to expect.
I would like to hear y’alls views on this. What do you think is reasonable?
The fact that some people were mad that their 25 year old GPU wouldn’t be officially supported by the latest Linux kernel seemed pretty silly to me. At that point, the machine is a vintage piece of tech history. Valuable in its own right, and very cool to keep alive, but I don’t think it’s unreasonable for the devs to drop it after two and a half decades.
I think for me, a 10 year minimum seems reasonable.
And obviously, much of this work is for little to no pay, so love and gratitude to all the devs that help keep this incredible community and ecosystem alive!
And don’t forget to Pay for your free software!!!
As long as someone is willing and able to maintain it.
It’s open source. All the work is either done by volunteers or by corporate sponsors. If it’s worth it for you to keep a GPU from the 90s running on modern kernels and you can submit patches to keep up with API changes, then no reason to remove it. The problem isn’t that the hardware is old, it’s that people don’t have the time to do the maintenance
However, when it comes to any proprietary hardware/software the solution is simple. All companies should be required by law to open source all software and drivers, regardless of age, when the discontinued support; including server side code if the product is dependent on one (massive for gaming).
it’s not that wild of a concept, it’s basically just an extension of how copyright and patents expire. You should have to prove that your IP is actually in use for it to remain valid, otherwise you forfeit it. Honestly moreso to prevent patent/copyright trolling than for right to repair reasons.
What do you think is reasonable?
As long as possible unless nobody uses it for cases that need any security (daily driver, server, enterprise etc). If you drop support, you are lazy and support ewaste creation. In some cases it can be too difficult to support it but “too difficult” has a lot of meanings most of which are wrong.
I think for me, a 10 year minimum seems reasonable.
That’s really not enough. GTX 1080 is an almost 10 years old card but it’s still very competitive. Most of my friends even use 750s or similar age hardware. And for software, any major updates just make it more enshittificated now lol.
In principal I don’t disagree.
Problem is supporting everything requires work and effort which isn’t funded by a corporation or anything
perhaps we should start building things with long term support in mind, and not just churn out the cheapest shit we can manage.
Like just look at modern laptops, most of them are absolute dogshit in terms of repairability and then you have the framework which you can straight up buy as a kit to assemble yourself.
Making things easy to maintain is clearly doable, not even that hard.
@Swedneck @breadsmasher It’s wild how most modern laptops are a nightmare for repairs. Framework, feels like a breath of fresh air. Being able to buy it as a kit and put it together yourself is just so cool !! It shows that making things easy to maintain is not only possibe, but it’s not even that difficult…
Hardware support is usually funded enough or has enough human resources for it not to be a big problem imo. It’s ok to drop 30 years old stuff that nobody uses but dropping something just because rich people have a few years newer hardware is bad.
I feel like with libre/open source software, this is a lot less of a problem – So long as it is still possible to add it back by messing around under the hood, we are pretty much fine with the “Main” branch of some software dropping legacy support?
It’d be unreasonable to expect the devs of anything to keep supporting things that are over 20 years old.
And like, if you’re using 25 year old kit at this point you’re either a hobbyist collector of vintage stuff, OR an enterprise with mission-critical assets on old legacy hardware/software – In either of those scenarios, “figure out how to go under the hood and fix stuff” (or in the enterprise’s case, “hire someone who does that for you”) is not an unreasonable expectation to have.
The smelly part is of course proprietary software and hardware, where “dropped official support” might as well be the signing of a death order. We desperately need a “right to repair and maintenance” regulation on every country in the world.
I’ll add that at this point, if you’re a hobbyist collector of vintage computer hardware, and you find satisfaction at making that old Compy 386 run like it’s modern hardware, you should know how to compile your own kernel.
Like, it just seems prudent, given the fact that it’s unreasonable to expect a “universal” kernel to simply grow and never prune anything (which I think avoiding having a giant kernel was part of the rationale, iirc), and there’s plenty of documentation out there on how to do it. If you aren’t going to run the same hardware as 95% of your peers, it’s your responsibility to make sure your hardware works.
Yeah I mean
Hobbyist collectors of typewriters (I know because my father is one) and cars (one of my friends is one) all have to learn how to maintain and service their own stuff because businesses that did that for them have all but disappeared. It’s considered part and parcel of the hobby.
It’d be nuts to expect it to be any different for computer collectors. Compile your own kernels, diagnose your own problems, fix your own shit. That’s what you do for a hobby. :P
If you’re running something that old, then it is by choice anyway, hardware gets more expensive after a certain age, and you definitely won’t be getting a (functional) 90s computer for cheap.
My current laptop is 9 years old, I recently replaced the heat paste and added new RAM. It should definitely be more than 10 years, as my laptop is totally usable for everyday tasks like
- playing music
- playing movies
- browsing the web
- Org-mode
My current laptop is 7 years old, and I Love It!
I still even play games with it. Not the newest stuff, but I have such a huge backlog of indies and not-so-new games that I could play for 15 years…
If someone told me this will be garbage in 3 years… I would hit them with the laptop. It’s a T470p, their skull is the part that would break.
As long as possible, as long as someone is using it, as long as someone can keep maintaining it.
If the main developer team can no longer maintain it then open-source it, put it in the public domain and set it free. Ditto for firmware and hardware documentation.
Companies oughta be forced to release all information they have on hardware they no longer maintain and disable any vendor-lock crap once warranty ends.
Yes hardware gets old and in the computer realm it usually means it’s rendered obsolete, but that doesn’t mean it doesn’t have its uses.
