I don’t think the game is all that good or fun(personally).
I’m a pretty seasoned SoulsBorne player playing all of the games aside from Elden Ring. I’ve only had trouble on two of the bosses so far. But my big issue is I’m just not having a good time like with the other games and I’m almost done with it.
I know the combat is much faster paced which I appreciate but its also very dull. Its the same Dark Souls combat with most of the creativity removed and a looooot of parrying. And the parrying isn’t even rewarding, it makes it like a rhythm game.
Problem with it being a rhythm game though is that I expect to know when I need to parry but the timings are all over the place. I also just don’t think the enemies are all that different to fight, most of them are the exact same in this game just different timings or tells.
I mean I see the reviews, everyone loves this game and I loved all the other games but is it just the fast paced combat and grappling hook that helps it? Having a visible story is nice so far too I suppose.
I’m just curious if other people do or don’t like it and why or why not.
This is how I feel about all “soulslike” games. To me they’re all big Mario Maker levels with extra steps, and I don’t like Mario Maker either (at least not what people do with the more difficult levels). And this is not about the games being too hard, I actually enjoy that aspect, my favorite games are roguelikes and multiplayer games with very deep mechanics, like Dota 2 and Counter-Strike. I like being challenged and I don’t mind losing, as long I get rewarded with something that feels meaningful (like getting better at the game or learning more about the story).
The issue is actually that what people call challenging in these games come from the level designer trolling you, like an enemy that is in a weird spot and is designed to kill you without giving you real chance, then you just memorize it and repeat that loop until you reach the end of the game. This is a pattern with the bosses too, it’s not about being smart or experimenting with interesting mechanics, but about knowing the bullshit hitboxes, or the weird timing on the enemy animations. To top it up the story is often very minimalistic and relies on very basic tropes. So what’s left for me is a huge time sink without any real reward.
I love the game. Even got all the endings.
I think all the parrying is more satisfying than all the dodge rolls in Dark Souls. It makes cool noises and look more spectacular. Dodge rolls just look weird and doesn’t make sense at all (but it’s still fun to do).
And if you think the game is too easy, there’s a way to make it harder (before NG+). You can ring the Demon Bell found in Senpou Temple, which will trigger some form of ”hard mode”.
I agree 100%, parrying is the way to go with combat like this though I wish for a bit more of a balance between parrying and other things that this game doesn’t quite hit. Still when it works, it works well.
As for difficulty it’s not that I find the enemies easy per se, it’s that I find the game loop easy and kind of dull. Those problems I don’t expect a harder difficulty to fix. For instance I fought Owl for the second time and the tedium of that with his high damage convinced me pretty well that the difficulty wasn’t the issue. Enemies in this game are already extremely deadly so harder must be like playing a no hit run right? Lol
Yeah, ringing the demon bell just makes enemies hit harder and have more health. There’s a second way to increase the difficulty, but you only have access to it after you’ve beaten the game. It beefs up enemies, but also makes it so you take chip damage when guarding, meaning you have to parry to avoid damage altogether. The second method makes the game harder in a good way
Souls + elden ring games: dodging just avoids damage. For me, its just dodging the 7 moves untill the boss does the right opening for me to punish. Sekiro: deflecting does posture damage to the boss. You are in control of the fight. (Bloodborne: fingers crossed next week)
Also, your first taste of New Game Plus might also change your mind. I know saying ‘wait till new game plus’ is a bad argument, but my first playthrough, it took me days to beat genichiro in the castle. New game plus, you know all the moves, and you end up one shotting+no hitting the boss. Its like YOU’RE the boss now just putting down all the bosses that put you down the first time.
You don’t even need to wait for ng+. Sometimes I just start a new game and cruise through the first parts. Clear the “you should lose here” tutorial boss and go all the way to lady butterfly. Then I usually run out of steam.
It’s really satisfying to be able to do that without a level up grind
Preface: I have played through DS1 multiple times, DS 3 multiple times, Elden Ring multiple times, and Sekiro twice. I love all these games to bits. I tried DeS, and while I found it fascinating, I came upon it too late and did not feel like proceeding as I have been spoiled by later titles.
Sekiro is beloved due to its very tight design. It asks the player to excel at a handful of specific skills rather than presenting a wide array of options and going “well some of this ought to work for you if combined correctly”. Is either approach better than the other? Subjective. But it’s easy to see why one or the other could appeal more or less to individuals.
That being said, with a narrower band of skills to sharpen comes more constrained encounters. Sekiro is (chiefly) a game about one-on-one combat where nearly every attack can be deflected. “Parry” really is the wrong word for the primary defensive option in Sekiro. Even attacks that are telegraphed with the big red “watch out!” warning actually CAN be deflected (though perhaps you’d be a fool to try). The game is clearly trying to get the player into the groove of trading strikes. You attack until sparks fly, the enemy disengages, or winds up an attack unhindered by your strikes. Then you are met with the defensive challenge: here is one or more attacks with different timings and potential responses. It is now up to the player to answer with whatever they feel is most effective. This may be deflect, block, dodge, jump, mikiri counter, consumable item, or shinobi prosthetic tool. You may find more than one answer fits and therein lies the player’s ability to be creative.
I would argue being creative within a more limited set of constraints does not necessarily diminish the quality of satisfaction one could experience. Being able to master - or at minimum become proficient with - a difficult set of skills despite constraints could even be argued to be far more satisfying as there is less opportunity to find some cheese in the massive toolbox that you would otherwise have access to. And it’s not like the toolbox you have in Sekiro is as small as some detractors seem to think. However, it is much smaller and focused than other titles… especially Elden Ring.
And this is me only talking about the combat. All the other aspects of the game are very well designed too, but I’ve said enough. Also, critics tend to focus on the combat anyway.
Appreciate the detailed response. I think there are merits to what you’re saying about the combat being very tight but it’s extremely demanding of the player on those specific skills and that’s exactly what I find incredibly boring about it actually.
Sekiro is at its best for me when there are sparks flying and I’m fending off a flurry of blades left and right, getting those perfect timings and sussing out the beat to which the enemy is coming at me with. Even some of the regular enemies do a great job at showcasing what’s possible with the system.
But then I hit the second Owl fight. In this fight you are fending off attacks that it does not matter if you fend off or not. You will spend minutes fending off attacks for a one or two hit window to chip at damage. You will do this over and over again for 15 minutes. It’s boring. And if you get clipped by a hitbox or dodge at the wrong time, instant death. It makes all of the flaws of the game including the camera and lock on system just come out in full force.
Let me put it this way: I feel like a speed runner trying to execute what I know are the exact right moves over and over again for 10-15 minutes without making minor mistakes. As opposed to other souls games where the combat would ebb and flow, this game is one speed and you must approach enemies a few ways at most. That’s the part that gets boring is that I can’t go in going “I’m going to try to dodge this differently” and instead I’m going back in thinking “I sure hope I hit jump at this one part faster” or “don’t miss that one parry or you die” or “how do I avoid that broken hitbox?”
Specifically I had to take a break after fighting the fire demon and seeing it about to charge forward so I dodge behind it, only to die from it charging away from me despite have multiple feet of distance between us. This isn’t the first fight this type of thing has happened in either. The sumo dude in the memory is pretty bad for this as well.
Have you ever noticed that about these games? Maybe I’m off base but I feel like FromSoft is almost like Bethesda in the way that they have some rough edges to a game demanding perfection from you but a lot of people just say it adds to the difficulty or that it’s expected. It’s not massive issues but I’ve lost many fights in this game to stuff that wasn’t my fault at all.
I experienced few bugs in Sekiro, so I can’t comment on that. The buggiest/jankiest experience I’ve had with a From game was DS1 and that stuff did frustrate me to no end.
The difficulty spikes you speak of for Owl 2 and Demon of Hatred are kind of the point (you didn’t mention it, but Butterfly 2 as well). Those are optional story-focused bosses where everything is cranked up to 11. They are “challenge mode” encounters. This applies to Demon of Hatred especially. It’s basically a DS boss in Sekiro. The boss mechanics and combat mechanics clash with dissonance. It makes it challenging, but in a rather frustrating way because few other encounters are like it (maybe headless to a small degree?). You’re basically taking a test for a subject you didn’t get to study for so you have to learn on the job. It is definitely the fight that took the most attempts by a wide margin. Conversely, the final boss is the opposite: the culmination of all the things you’ve been taught put on dazzling display. It’s your final “performance” if you will.
None of this is to say the skill ask of the player is not demanding, because it is. The patterns required to respond during enemy aggression is different than a Soulslike, but I think it’s still in the same neighborhood. “When the enemy/boss does X, I do Y”, the difference being in Sekiro the strings of X and Y are much faster and there’s far more of them. If you don’t like that variation on the theme, well then that’s it… You don’t like it! There’s nothing wrong with not liking something. And I know some players describe an event while muddling through where something “clicks” and they suddenly “get it” and then enjoy it far more (this applies to all From games). But it’s possible Souls games will click for you and Sekiro simply will not.
I wouldn’t say it’s really bugs I experienced, the game just seems to play fast and loose with its hitboxes at times. Some of it is fine and it’s a game that needs to be playable so I understand but I think most souls players have had the experience of being hit by a weapon whose speed is nearly zero at the end of a swing but still does full damage, it’s just how the games have always been from what I can tell.
That and being hit because I’m too close to an enemy so the cylinder hitbox around their sword clips me, that happens. Or being hit while behind or beside an enemy happens sometimes. Just frustrating in this game more than most because when those confusing hits do happen, they do massive damage that is harder to recover than it would be in a souls game.
Also very good to hear the final boss is what I’m working toward. I know Owl 2 is optional but I wanted to push myself. I’m fine with the difficulty but the fight was pretty silly and grindy. Just highlighted some of the issues I had with other enemies but I’m not judging the whole game on either that or the demon.
And yes you’re spot on about the demon lol. My thoughts exactly were that it seems just ported from another game and utilizes few of the mechanics I’ve been honing my skills at.
I did think it was the final boss though so hearing people talk about how the actual final boss is better is giving me hope. The souls games are at their peak when you finish a final boss and feel like a Karate kid moment where the wax on wax off of the systems are showing their merit of teaching you to master them. Looking forward to it and thanks for your input
That is a very comprehensive and well articulated response. I enjoyed the game for what it was and I appreciate the response it got which set the foundation for the success of Elden Ring.
With that said, I still strongly believe that DMC5 got robbed that year for the attention it deserved. Personally, I believe DMC5 did everything Sekiro was doing better. From combat, characters to enemy and level design.
how I feel about all souls games. Sekiro had the aesthetic I liked more and still didn’t finish it. I just find them boring
