lab grown meat is a vaguely EA/rationalist/self IDed neolib meme. in theory it will save the environment (ok) and prevent suffering (yay) in a way that concentrates capital (double yay) and involves a lot of tech magic (triple yay).
hot luigi is a big fan apparently. seeing this discussed reminded me of this excellent article which shreds the concept of mass produced lab grown meat. I haven’t really seen this circulate much over the years, but it is really a masterwork of grift dissection. please enjoy
archive link: https://web.archive.org/web/20241208141305/https://thecounter.org/lab-grown-cultivated-meat-cost-at-scale/
count another yay for how magic tech could (meaning: won’t) solve major problem without people using it being inconvenienced in any way (giving up meat)
I eat very little meat these days, and I’d be happy to have lab-grown as an option. Even if it’s more expensive and not produced at the same scale
at least make a pretense of having read the article instead of very obviously reacting to the headline jfc
That’s the power of not saying anything interesting, you can’t contradict it
The article itself does mention that creating cultured meat is already possible, just that the limits of the technology presently known for doing it make creating it at the same cost as regular meat infeasible. Which technically doesn’t contradict with what the person you replied to said, because the commenter didn’t exactly say how expensive or niche they expected it to be, so even something like a hundred dollar hamburger that doesn’t replace a significant fraction of food consumption but does exist as a novelty luxury for someone that had the money to spend on animal protein once in a blue moon, fits.
fwiw the post this is replying to originally didn’t have the phrase “instead of very obviously reacting to the headline,” I edited that in later. without the edit I think it does come across like I thought zweibel was contradicting some specific point in the article. not true, b/c they didn’t address the article at all
“Friedrich argued that investor buy-in was the de facto proof that cultivated meat has legs. Major meatpackers, prominent venture capital firms, the government of Singapore: You could trust that these stakeholders had done their due diligence, and they wanted in.”
Ow god it is a scam. This was a reaction to researchers saying “we dont see it”.
Investors as a general class are usually pretty terrible at staying in their lane and not listening when actual subject matter experts disagree with the guy with a good story. I think the only reason they have any reputation otherwise (compared to e.g. physicists’ disease) is survivorship bias.
In short, lab-grown cannot realistically replace a significant portion of the meat industry, for a variety of reasons. First of all, it’s far too expensive and doesn’t scale well because so much active machinery is required at each step in the manufacturing process. There are also issues regarding infected vats and if the cells’ nutrition compares to that of natural meat.
At least it’s possible in theory? I’m glad we’re that far. But it clearly isn’t going to happen at a large enough scale for lab-grown meat to start appearing at grocery stores.
Something this does lead me to wonder: the primary draw I usually have seen for lab grown meat is obtaining actual meat without animal suffering. (The article mentions theoretical environmental benefits if somehow perfected given the lack of need to produce unwanted parts of an animal, but given that any kind of processing of plant matter is going to be less efficient than eating the plants themselves, that seems like it can’t really be the primary motivation). Do we actually need to culture cells to do that? Suppose we went the other way, instead of trying to, say, create chicken meat without the rest of the chicken, we were to take a chicken and try to redesign it so as to be unable to suffer, while keeping other useful properties (like an immune system, as the article brings up). Suffering requires a certain level of cognitive function, which requires a certain level of brain complexity and size. Chickens in industrial scale farms don’t exactly utilize their cognitive abilities to the full, we barely even let them space to move to my understanding. So, what if we were to try to genetically engineer a chicken, or other livestock animal, with as little brains as possible while still being able to keep the thing alive, until the ethical issues of killing it were equivalent to those of something like a plant?
