Lemmy reacts to a non-sexualized silly outfit pic in a totally normal way…
Previous posts in this series…
- incredible find: https://lemmy.cafe/post/10217719
- epic ratio: https://lemmy.cafe/post/9597634
- lemmy is a worse platform for women than reddit was: https://lemmy.cafe/post/4821164
If people act like that on 196, please report it
“Italians do it better” is an intentional double entendre, so I feel moving to a more sexual commentary is not wholly out of the ballpark of reasonableness.
Fuck “Is this your first day on the internet” response, though, and the other two weird comments.
We really 95% male here, though? I thought it was more like 70-30.
Nope, rare PugJesus L I’m sorry. It’s an obvious Madonna reference.
Wearing Madonna’s clothes is not a reasonable invitation to body objectification. Really, wearing any clothes should never be considered a sexual invitation without further context or permission.
Nope, rare PugJesus L I’m sorry. It’s not a double entendre, it’s an obvious Madonna reference.
… is it not a double-entendre when she wore it in that video? I’ve only ever heard it (and adaptations) used in the context of a double-entendre, and the song’s lyrics and visuals don’t seem to contradict any such interpretation. I mean, it’s literally used in the scene where the boy who presumably impregnates the girl of the lyrics/video/Madonna’s depiction first catches her eyes in a clear depiction of a sexually charged first meeting/attraction/whatever.
Wearing Madonna’s clothes, especially clothes that reference a pretty serious non-sexual video, is not a reasonable invitation to body objectification.
I mean, commenting on a rando’s selfie that’s not posted by said rando is so devoid of context that I often have trouble discerning what is and is not appropriate (regarding the behavior of the commenters, not myself - I generally don’t have the urge to comment on said photos), so it’s more of a general observation, but, absent all that, “Woman wearing a shirt with a sexualized message gets a sexualized joke directly related to the content of that message” does not seem, on a first reading, absurd, other than in general crassness that can be applied to sexualized jokes about people in any circumstance.
If she was uncomfortable with it, it would be unambiguously wrong instead of just lacking in context that would make it appropriate (ie an offense rather than a mistake). But, as I said - unless a rando’s selfie is uploaded by said rando, there’s no context, so my observation of whether the comment is appropriate is in a vacuum, and may not fit the context of the conversation or atmosphere of the comment thread.
(edited for clarifications)
Okay… let’s back up. Forget the text on the shirt— A woman’s clothes do not make an invitation to objectification. Period. Other context might, but just clothes does not do it. Hope this is clear haha.
(To answer your question yes it is a double entendre in the video. But if some in-universe character sexualized Madonna’s character in the video simply over the shirt it would still he inappropriate. Fans wear merch all the time, people wear revealing clothes all the time, and none of that gives an OK to sexualization.)
Those are yucky comments anywhere other than an lemmynsfw community or a community with a suggestive name. I can’t glean much context from this screenshot of the post but in general, I believe horniness should be kept to horny online places.
We can and should do much better than that.
Related to the previous posts bit, but I remember first seeing the Man vs. Bear memes.
I’ll admit it was hard not to take it personally at first, because even if you agreed with the core of the message, it feels like you’re being lumped in with the worst of menkind for no good reason. That’s probably why the reaction was so toxic, because people just replied with their gut reaction, which was to take offence…
But upon giving it a bit of thought, I realised that as a guy who’s lived in some dodgy areas, I think I too would oftentimes prefer to take my chances with a bear than alone with a stranger at night - not cause I think I’d beat the bear, but at least you know what the bear’s probably gonna do…
And if I feel that way being a man, then considering (on average) women are weaker than men of the same build, I can see why women would feel that way too.
Indian metal band Bloodywood has the best take on the “all men” issue:
Not all men?
Yes all men!
Need all men for what we’re solving
Can’t be what it’s been but we’re evolving
The patriarchy privileges every man, which means every man needs to fight the system. If every man who hears the message and isn’t an abuser stands up and does something, we can end the patriarchy. It’s not “every man is guilty”, it’s “every man is responsible, and we can end it together.”
And the rest of the song is about punching rapists.
I agree with this and I have absolutely no desire to undermine the problems that women face. However I think it is also important to understand how many men also feel oppressed by the patriarchy as well. Obviously women have been and continue to be oppressed to a far greater and much more literal degree, but so many men feel this immense pressure to “be a man.” This frustration at feeling inadequate because of these immense pressures is what makes so many men as dangerous and unpredictable as they are. I really think this is a major part of the issue, we need more men to stand up and realize that they don’t have to conform to some shitty societal idea of what masculinity should be, same as how women have been fighting against their own traditional gender roles. Any man who can feel secure in being himself regardless of society’s expectations should help the men in his life to understand the same. Maybe then we’d have less insecure, dangerous men running around.
Oh yeah Bloodywood get that. They’re an all male band. They also have songs about struggling with suicide and living your own truth
(In Hindi:)
I am not voiceless, I am endurant
I m not a stray rock, I am the founding stone of a mountain
I am not weak, I am forgiving
Within darkness, I am my own light
They are the most positive male role models you can imagine, openly talking about personal struggle and about the things they told themself to overcome those struggles.
And they also think the working class should rise up and redistribute wealth. They’ve used the proceeds from their tours to help homeless animals and pay for counselling for young people. They say if the conditions faced by the poorest in society don’t change, the owning class should expect a riot. “No flag on my bulletproof vest”.
I know you probably didn’t mean it like this, but I’m one of those people who “realized” I didn’t need to conform to being traditionally masculine, and this is definitely not something the average person can or should do. If you don’t try your best at “being a man,” When you’re younger other men will bully you, most women will either think there’s something wrong with you or not want to talk to you, and your parents will wonder what they’re doing wrong. Even people with super accepting parents end up feeling weirded out by “non manly” people because it’s not the norm. When you get older a lot of these issues get easier because you can choose who you associate with, but I still get people either commenting or treating me worse because I’m not “manly” enough, almost never the opposite.
I have no idea what to do about this, I’m just saying living as a not traditionally “manly” will have the general population treating you worse for your whole life, and you’re either strong enough to deal with that and stick with only the people who don’t care about it, or you go back to being “manly”
Fuck every man for himself
It’s every man for every man
And everybody else
Everybody else
it feels like you are being lumped in with the worst of menkind for no good reason.
Before I realized I was trans I also got super upset at being lumped in with bad men (although with an additional different reason that I didn’t understand at the time), and that feeling is absolutely terrible, because you’re basically getting shit on just for existing.
From my perspective as a woman it seems like there are a lot of shitty dudes out there. After I realizing I’m trans it became a lot easier to notice misogyny since it now affects me. I did notice before, but when something affects you specifically you notice it a lot more. I also didn’t fully understand how weak women are compared to men until I started taking estrogen. Just being near a man I don’t know well or at all is very scary because of how easily he could overpower me.
If I am getting a random bear vs a random man I would definitely take the bear just because I feel like the risk of getting a bad man is too high. If I could pick a specific man, I definitely would pick my father or a friend because I know they are good men and I feel safe around them.
I think some outrage could have been avoided if the question was worded just a bit better, although I think part of why it got so popular is because of the outrage it caused.
Love getting the wakeup call that just because something is part of the fediverse it is not inherently good or perfekt and still needs work (in regards of the humans that join)
