Because the little shits (affectionate) don’t want to put them down when appropriate
Am I the crazy one? Millennial myself. We had cell phones and got detentions for using them in class. When did that stop being a thing? Why is this a question at all??
You’re there to learn. You sneak texts between periods. If we were caught our phone was given to the principal
In the 2000s and early 2010s, less of your life was lived on a cell phone or smartphone.
For kids now, it’s 100% of their lives. Post-COVID, the majority of social interaction between peers is through a social media app.
That means that close to 100% of kids are on their phones during the school day. If you aren’t, you run the risk of social isolation and FOMO.
Administrators can’t send a kid to detention for using their phone because ALL kids would be in detention every day.
Here’s one article that examines the problem
As long as the phone isn’t used in class I fail to the the issue. There’s no need to ban phone use in general while on school premises.
It makes sense, I really like what this principal did, and he was fully aware that kids were addicted and were going to go through a withdrawal period. I think the pouches are a good thing, they may have gotten addicted during covid, but now is the time to end that and make sure the next wave of kids don’t suffer the same. I really liked the results:
Gabe Silver, another eighth-grader, echoed that sentiment. When the pouches first arrived, “everyone was miserable and no one was talking to each other,” he said. Now he can hear the difference at lunch and in the hallways. It’s louder. Students are chatting more “face to face, in person,” Gabe said. “And that’s a crucial part of growing up.”
Some students hadn’t realized how much their phones diverted their focus. Nicole Gwiazdowski, 14, followed the earlier rule not to use her cellphone in class. But even in her pocket, it was still a distraction. Her phone would buzz five to 10 times a day with notifications, she said, prompting her to take it out and check it.
Everyone is paying more attention in class these days, she said. And it turns out that being separated from your phone for the day isn’t as big a deal as some students feared.
“People thought, ‘Oh my God, I’m going to miss so much,’” Nicole said. “You don’t miss anything. Nothing important is happening outside school.”
Based on my interactions with teachers, the administrative class that runs these schools are cowards who don’t want to deal with angry parents, nor the liability if the phones get confiscated and then stolen/damaged. There’s also a lot of parents who want to text their kids during the school day and get mad when they can’t. A lot of teachers have given up since the higher ups won’t back them up. This happened around 2015 or so, when smartphones became ubiquitous.
The lack of etiquette is really frustrating. Had a tech student that was always putting in both earbuds as I was speaking. Had to walk over and wave my hand in front of the screen to get their attention.
When they graduated they said they were excited to get a job in the industry. Internally can’t help but think “with what knowledge or experience? You spent the entire class blocking it out.”
“Excuse me child, can you please not hit that crack pipe while class is in session?”
This is not on the kids at all. Kids need to be protected by adults including from themselves.
It’s our job to limit their free access to addictive stuff. Once they’re adults, addiction management becomes their own problem. But these phones are like crack.
Unfortunately, failing classes in public education is not at all common anymore. It requires a lot of documentation, meetings, calls, individualized curriculum adjustments, and a multitude of second chances. On top of that, administration is not a fan because it makes the school look bad in their eyes.
A lot of the teachers I worked with would vent their frustration that it was way too much work to fail a student or get them dropped from the program. Unfortunately, I was too busy figuring out how to update the curriculum from Windows 7, on machines built to run Windows 7, as well as just learning how to teach (my “training” was about half a day of sitting in on other classes), to fight that kind of battle. At some point, it’s a disservice to the rest of the class to spend that time and energy on the ones who are there to coast.
I tried my best. Hopefully everybody learned a few things. If nothing else, I certainly did.
I usually let my students keep their devices, but I had one student… I had asked everyone to write 5 sentences about a made up place. The kid was on his phone, showing things to his classmates while assuring me he was doing his work. Everyone finished but him, with nothing. I let every other student share their answers first to buy him time, then when it was his turn, nothing. I took away his phone and he had it done in less than a minute.
Sounds like you should have taken his phone away when everyone else had finished, or before that, since he was distracting others. Also sounds like the assignment wasn’t challenging enough for him.
You’re right on that I should have taken his phone away sooner, but he was the weakest student in class. Three of his sentences were the same sentence said more and more poorly each time. Not sure what he thought he was getting away with there. Of course I did a peer correction check of his presentation and had him do it again.
It’s disappointing but not surprising to see so many people (on lemmy) willing to violently control children and their access to tech, information, etc.
- https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2023/05/kids-online-safety-act-still-huge-danger-our-rights-online
- https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2024/03/thousands-young-people-told-us-why-kids-online-safety-act-will-be-harmful-minors
- https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2022/12/schools-and-edtech-need-study-student-privacy-year-review-2022
It’s pretty telling when people don’t want to do anything about the many other much bigger causes of psychological harm. Where’s the law that stops cops from harassing minority youth? Yeah right.
Peeps are literally upvoting Ron DeSantis. Fascism is not the goal here. Wake up, y’all.
Christ almighty, that was dramatic.
Not being able to use your cell phone for the duration of the school day is fascism.
Fascinating.
I always wonder what kind of experiences people like this had in their life to reach such a state of delusion. They also claimed schools were “literally mini-prisons that feed into into actual prison” and suggested that asking students to pay attention in class was “authoritarianism”.
Ironically, I had friends in school who had come from juvy. I guess you could say prision fed into school instead? I’d love to ask them their opinions on that statement though and see how similar to prison school really was.
As far as I can tell, that person is just rage baiting. If they genuinely believe school is the same as prison, having visited one myself (not for myself), all I can say is they should actually visit one and see for themselves what a prison is actually like.
I have a kid, I spent 10 years working with kids professionally, and I agree with this dude.
In fact, lots of people, myself included, are drawn to leftist anarchism BECAUSE of lessons we learned about the failures of authoritarianism in school from parents and teachers. It’s always super annoying to see parents and teachers settling comfortably into an authoritarian role with their own kids, after hearing them wax emphatically about the effects of authoritarianism in adult society. I’m surrounded by hypocrites, and it’s not harmless. It’s like everybody either forget what it’s like to be kids, or think that the lessons of adulthood give them license to stop caring about those “little” problems, (and be fricken condescending in the process) when actually they just find it “easier” or it “feels safer” to them.
I have friends who we’re excellent teachers, but left the school system in absolute despair because they went in intending to be collaborative, entertaining teachers and passionate advocates for the kids in their care… Only to run up against all the bureaucratic walls the education system throws up to prevent exactly that and create as much conformity as possible… And then the icing on the cake is the vast majority of parents who just don’t get it, Don’t even try to get it, Don’t listen, know what they know, their opinions are their opinions and talking to them is just effing hopeless.
Whenever I’ve dealt with really difficult children, 9 times out of 10 you meet the parents and you’re like “Oh, this all makes sense!” (I can actually only think of three exceptions and two of those were clinical sociopaths). Or you go to work with a school (I’ve worked with and at dozens of schools) and you’re like “Oh, I understand why the kids from this school that I see in my program are always behaving in X, Y and Z dysfunctional ways. How is everyone this clueless and incompetent??” I have watched teachers utterly fail to teach or connect with the kids in their charge, and then watched those same teachers play politics and keep their positions while teachers who are doing a great job get let go (or forced out through social bs) because they want to ignore all that crap. I have had teachers come up to me when I’m running a program or event at their school and had them say “Oh my god, I’m so sorry, I saw the kids in your program and those are all the most difficult children we have!” And I’m like “these kids are fine! You’re an authoritarian in an authoritarian environment, aren’t you??”
And I’m literally surrounded by adults who like think they know what they’re doing, and aren’t even trying to get it and MAN do they have opinions they want to share and it pisses me the fuck off.
My kid creates super good boundaries, he emphasizes kindness in communication in ways I was totally unable to do it his age, he advocates for himself (and other kids) like someone a decade older, and if he’s on his phone in class, it’s because the teacher is failing to engage the class. End of discussion. When I see that situation, I’m almost always like “I could teach this class and these kids would not be on their phones, and I have the experience under my belt to prove it.” (And I have seen shit like that).
Respect. You and yours are the educators that treat kids as people and not cattle to be controlled. Mind bending how revolutionary that act is. Thank you
Just to counterbalance some of the disagreement replies you’ve got - I agree with you, it’s scary how many people are happy to be ageist, even when they’re so progressive on other forms of equality. If you can control people based on how long they’ve been alive, that’s very dangerous in several ways, both to the people who’s autonomy is being stolen, and to others who it sets a precedent for.
Anecdotally, yes it does improve attention in class. I have friends who are teachers here in Australia and they are all massively in favour of the bans after a year of them being in place. The problem with the scoping review quoted in the article is that it conflates several different issues and suggests phone bans in schools are supposed to be a silver bullet for all of them. You are never going to solve the mental health and bullying problems with a phone ban that only lasts half of the day, five days a week. Those problems require much broader policy and greater responsibility from parents. Another problem is that research into the effect of smartphones on schooling (which does actually suggest improvements) generally focuses on test or exam results, which are not a reliable indicator of whether students are actually learning or gaining anything from the experience of school.
I am in full agreement that cell phones should not be out of the backpack or pocket unless there is an emergency or it’s lunch time / outside of class.
But for the love of critical thinking, also please ban the teachers from using ChatGPT to create their tests for them. I was appalled at finding out teachers at my kid’s school are doing that. While I support any tool (and funding!) that can make the lives and jobs of teachers easier, using a tool like ChatGPT is as irresponsible as telling kids to just Google it. And teachers/administrators should damn well know better.
Cool, so pay teachers more and give them ample time and resources to not need to cut corners.
Also using ChatGPT is fine, not checking the results after is not.
Agreed on the teachers getting more pay and time.
And I agree that checking for objective fact with respect to teaching and testing is necessary.
But…ChatGPT is not a credible source. So using it in the classroom is not exactly fine (outside of showing it as an example of a source that isn’t credible). It is in its infancy and any educator who uses it in the classroom and relies upon it is doing a considerable disservice to those they educate. That’s like teaching using Wikipedia. I get that it has information, many times accurate, but it should never be used as a source.
As a commentary…Far too often in this modern world people (not you, just a general sense of society) seem to see something that may be 50, or 75 percent accurate and claim it as fact. This is how entertainment news organizations function to get ratings. And if kids are to be taught critical thinking they must be taught how to discern what is or isn’t credible.
Otherwise we’re lost. And perhaps we already are.
You’re only considering one narrow use of LLMs (which they’re bad at). They’re great for things like idea generation, formatting, restructuring text, and other uses.
For example, I tend to write at too high a writing level. I know this about myself, but it’s still hard (with my ADHD) to remain mindful of that while also focusing on everything else that crowds my working memory when doing difficult work. I also know that I tend to focus more on what students can improve instead of what they did well.
So ChatGPT is a great tool for me to get a first pass of feedback for students. I can then copy/paste the parts I agree with for praise, then “turd sandwich” my suggestions for improvement in the middle. Or I can use ChatGPT to lower the writing level for me.
For tests, it’s great to get it to generate a list of essay questions. You can feed GPT 4 up to 50 pages of text, too, so the content is usually really accurate if you actually know how to write good prompts.
I could go on. LLMs are a great tool, and teachers are professionals who (I hope) are using it appropriately. (Not just blindly copying/pasting like our students are… But that’s a whole other topic.)
There is no emergency that can’t be handled by the adults of the school.
I can understand needing a phone for the commute, but at school it should stay in the bag turned off.
I hear you. But my child will have a cell phone in case of a real emergency when the adults don’t properly act. While I trust teachers rather implicitly, my experience with most school administrators is far less stellar. Also, a student calling 911 when the teacher is having a heart attack or some other life threatening event will save time and possibly their life.
Barring any emergency situations, my child’s phone better be put away.
Our school had a buzzer, the office anawers the intercom, you tell them the emergency and they arrange everything. Cell phones really arent needed unless you are out on a field trip maybe
There are emergencies the adults at the school won’t understand. This has happened a few times to my spouse, where the nurse/teachers kept brushing off issues they didn’t understand, ranging from things like asthma to strep throat.
Otherwise, I agree that the phones should be put away during class.
Depends how they use chatgpt, if they use it tlfor content that can be troublesome, but here its being used as a format tool. You copy some previous test and ask it to reorder the numbered questions ( to precent class before giving the AACDBA series of answers) or use to copy paste in a large test and tell it to strip out every other quesotion, renumber and replace body text with double line spacing. For stuff like that it is a godsend.
