3 points

Honestly the fact that it has code that says “under condition X, don’t save the user” is concerning in and of itself. I wouldn’t trust this thing in the first place.

permalink
report
reply
2 points

First law of robotics:

Money up front.

permalink
report
parent
reply
2 points

The monthly subscription model leaves me feeling so very conflicted. On one hand, it’s a way to get an important piece of safety equipment for less money up front, which is good—there’s certainly cheaper airbag vests, but there’s more expensive ones, too.

No, no, there’s nothing conflicting here. If you need expensive safety equipment that you can’t afford up front there’s already a solution for that, it’s called financing. There is no upside to this, it’s just unethical, irresponsible, and dumb.

permalink
report
reply
0 points

Financing can have a higher interest. It is not this easy, but also not too hard.

permalink
report
parent
reply
1 point

Having a never ending subscription has even higher interest.

permalink
report
parent
reply
0 points

Safety equipment has a limited lifetime and you may only ride the motorcycle for a limited time.

permalink
report
parent
reply
2 points

IMO, for a safety system, anything sitting between the device’s sensors (to say it’s time to deploy the safety system, regardless of what it is), and the actual deployment of that safety system, is too many things sitting between those systems. There’s should always be a direct and uninterrupted connection from the safety deployment sensors and the safety deployment system. Nothing in between so the delay in deployment is as close to zero as possible, with no complications that could, in any way, shape, or form, delay or otherwise interrupt the connection between those two systems.

I really wonder what the mechanism for this license model is, I’m sure their engineers are intelligent and there’s no obvious issues, but say, for example, the sensors that trigger the airbag and the airbags deployment trigger, has something like a relay in between. The relay is controlled by a management computing device that has verified the license and so it closes the relay (so everything works). Say, for example, during a crash, one of the first things that happens is that you’re struck with debris, and in that debris is a very small, very powerful magnet. It happens to land, right where that relay sits, and because of where it impacts, it causes the relay to open… Disabling the airbag. You get wrecked because you were hit with a magnet.

I’m sure that is not realistic and they’re not using a magnetic based relay for something like this, but I think it demonstrates the point. Anything sitting between (detect) and (deploy) is a risk to life and limb. That includes, but is not limited to, lines of code, relays, disconnects, computers, electronic lockouts, switches, and buttons. Even significant lengths of wire, more than a few inches could be a problem due to induced current or the risk of them being pulled and/or broken. Ideally, the system for detecting that it should deploy and the deployment mechanisms trigger should be in the same, protected box or chassis on the vest, with nothing in-between to inhibit the signal. IMO, the only good way to do this kind of lockout is to control the arming/disarming of the system, where when the system arms (and therefore ready to be used and secure the life and limb of the user), it checks for the presence of a license, first locally (with a license that has been cached that informs when the subscription is set up expire, if that expiry is after now, then arm), and failing that (expiry is before now), check for a license via a link through the app to the web and/or service provider. Providing useful feedback to the user about the system and whether it has armed correctly and therefore ready to deploy.

Have they done it this way? I don’t know. I don’t trust that they have. I’d rather pay more for a safety system and not have it require a subscription than pay monthly to use the system and potentially have it fail a fucking license check when I need it the most. Bluntly, I don’t trust them to get this right. So fuck this, fuck them, and fuck anyone who supports this with their money. Any company putting a financial condition on the safety of your life isn’t a company that should continue to operate.

All of this is to say nothing of: what happens if the license servers fail? Can’t check in for a new license at renewal time because the servers are fucked… Well, good luck in that crash you’re about to have. 🖕

Fucking idiotic to trust a subscription model with your life.

permalink
report
parent
reply
1 point

Imagine you are in an accident and the server go off and you get killed while paying for that?

permalink
report
parent
reply
1 point

Or sn accident in a tunnel, where there isn’t a connection.

permalink
report
parent
reply
0 points

I use a 350€ manual airbag vest that was tested quite well

permalink
report
reply
3 points

It reportedly checks subscription upon putting the vest on and supposedly won’t turn off mid ride.

permalink
report
reply
0 points

The problem is the subscription, not how it was implemented

permalink
report
parent
reply
1 point

Yes, but also from an implementation perspective: if I’m making code that might kill somebody if it fails, I want it to be as deterministic and simple as possible. Under no circumstances do I want it:

  1. checking an external authentication service.
  2. connected to the internet in any way.
  3. have multiple services which interact over an API. Hell, even FFIs would be in the “only if I have to” bucket.
permalink
report
parent
reply
0 points

If the customer is dead, they definitely can’t renew.

Who wouldn’t tout your service if it saved them?

But also… why the fuck does this require a sub?

permalink
report
parent
reply
0 points

It checks the service when booting up before a ride. After that it doesn’t connect to the internet. If you’ve gone past your grace period of 60 days it won’t boot up at all, and it will alert you that the device isn’t active.

Don’t get me wrong, I hate the idea of the subscription but it’s important to have accurate information. Did you even read the product page?

permalink
report
parent
reply
5 points

And if there’s a bug in that code, you’re fucked.

Safety features should work if everything else fails. Their failure mode can’t be “fuck it, it didn’t work”. Which is directly opposite to the failure mode of a subscription based service.

permalink
report
parent
reply
2 points
*

This is why:

  1. The FTC needs to do its job and start outlawing all these obscene subscription business models for things that are rightfully products, not services. Where’s my goddamned First Sale Doctrine, FTC?!

  2. Software Engineers working on commercial products need to be professionally licensed, so that proper consequences can be applied for unethical “fail-deadly” designs like this one.

permalink
report
parent
reply
2 points
*

As a software engineer, the thought of my code being responsible for someone’s safety is fucking terrifying. Thankfully I’m not in that kind of position.

From experience though, I can tell you that most of the reasons software is shitty is because of middle or upper management, either forcing idiotic business requirements (like a subscription where it doesn’t fucking belong!) or just not allocating time to button things up. I can guarantee that every engineer that worked on that thing hated it and thought it was fucking stupid.

Licensing would be overkill for most software as it’s not usually life and death. I think in this case since it’s safety equipment it really should have been rejected by NHTSA before it ever hit stores.

permalink
report
parent
reply
1 point

This is managements fault, not the engineers fault.

We have to implement the requirements we are given. If we don’t, we get fired and they hire someone else who will do it.

permalink
report
parent
reply
2 points

My dad worked for AAA. Once he got a call because a lady’s car errored out and thought she didn’t have her seatbelt buckled mid-drive, so it shut the engine off. On the freeway.

Even without a subscription, failsafes should always fail safe.

permalink
report
parent
reply
2 points

Thorium reactors have a cleverly dumb failsafe. If reactor control fails, there’s a plug that melts and drains the contents into a container that’s not fit for runoff neutron generation.

That’s an example of a failsafe that fits its purpose. It’s still possible to fuck it up, but it would take a lot of effort to do so.

permalink
report
parent
reply
0 points

And if there’s a bug in that code, you’re fucked.

If there’s a bug in your car’s airbag, you’re also fucked.

permalink
report
parent
reply
0 points

Uh, or just don’t get one? This is a stand-alone product with an unconventional business model. It’s not like they’re forcing it on anyone.

permalink
report
reply
0 points

Uh, that’s not really the point? If you’re making a product that aims to promote safety and save lives, then you shouldn’t be able to cancel it at the will of the company. It would be like waking up in the middle of a surgery and the doctor telling you “Hey, looks like your anesthesia subscription expired, so unless you’ve got an extra $20 in your pocket right now, then we’re just going in raw.” If you absolutely NEED the extra money as part of your business model or whatever, then just charge them AFTER the service is used. Don’t just fucking turn the airbag off with no warning because they’re behind on a payment

permalink
report
parent
reply
1 point

Nobody really likes the implementation of the insurance model of healthcare, but… You do at least asunderstand the idea behind it, right?

Insurance charges a much lower rate than the actual price, but everyone pays even when they don’t need it. That way the people who aren’t using it cover the people who are. It doesn’t work if you only get charged when you use it.

That’s all this is. You pay a subscription that is much lower than the price of the product. If it gets used, they send you another one.

The cost is fixed, and you don’t have to worry about going without an important piece of safety equipment or incurring further costs after needing to use it.

If you have enough money to buy one directly, nobody is stopping you. This is actually aimed at people who can’t afford that and would not have access to this technology at all otherwise.

permalink
report
parent
reply