Except this last election cycle American leftists actually said “I’m far left and everyone else is a nazi.” Nobody was left enough for the left, even other leftists.
Two sides of the same coffin
Yea, whether the Lefty be Marxist, Anarchist, etc. no Lefty I have met has shied away from that label. Fascists love veiling themselves, however.
Which is weird, because I’ll regularly see two liberals screaming “Tankie!” at one another absolutely credulously
My views fall mainly under progressive, between liberal and far-left. I believe we should cap wealth at a billion dollars, and use the surplus capital for alternative energy infrastructure.
That’s far too progressive for liberals, yet I’m not on board with the “burn it all down and let a socialist utopia rise from the ashes” perspective of the far-left.
There are plenty of people on the left that hold non-centrist views, who would also not be considered far-left.
“burn it all down and let a socialist utopia rise from the ashes” perspective of the far-left.
Yeah, I haven’t really been able to make sense of all the tailism and accelerationism happening on .ml and hexbear. I don’t know how we’ve gotten to the point where stanning a bunch of right winged authoritarian countries is a form of anti-imperialism.
Unlike anarchists, MLs don’t really have a practical plan to get from the here and now to their socialist utopia. All they can do is wait for the collapse of the current society and hope that the subsequent radicalization will lead to them being the vanguard. However aside from the fact that vanguardism (and as an extension, ML) has been an abject failure, they can’t cause that collapse, so they do accelerationism instead.
The only rational approach to change this world is anarchist prefiguration which is the opposite of “burn it all down”.
Any idea where their current definition of imperialism is being grafted from?
I know they use a lot of language from world systems theory, designating America as the imperial core. However world system theory specifies that it’s only a way to analyze global trade, and that global trade is strictly defined by capitalism.
Any time I ask anyone on ml or hex, I just get downvoted and told that If I read lenin I would understand… But fucking lenin defined imperialism as a competition between Great powers, not a war between peripheral states against the “imperialist core”.
Is this all coming from some fucking streamer I don’t know about or something?
My main take on Tankies is that they’re sort of stealth right-wingers.
They believe that the way to communism is through a strongman dictator who will enforce the communism from the top.
If you sub out communism for “social hierarchies” then you have the right-wing wet dream. Because Tankies worship Lenin, the man who betrayed the revolution to seize power after he lost an election. It was the first and last free election in Russia, and Lenin ignored the results because he lost. Then he spent the rest of his life pretending that an authoritarian dictatorship could ever be communist.
No, true communism needs to come from the people. Extreme democracy is the way.
Turns out when 90±% of people when put into power have to grapple with their own morals and outside pressures they conform to what the situation calls for right then or use it for their own gain. You’re never going to get to utopia when there’s so much disfunction and division in the human experience
To me the tankies are almost like nazis in that regard that they want to force the issue and create a new world RIGHT NOW. When there are going to be a billion different factors that are going to counter act that notion and with prejudice
If you sub out communism for “social hierarchies” then you have the right-wing wet dream.
If you replace “the abolition of social hierarchies” with “the reinforcement of social hierarchies,” it makes left wing people sound just like right wing people 🤔
It stems from the dialectical part of dialectical materialism.
Yeah, but anyone can claim that they are acting within dialectical reasons. If you have some reading material that explains the actual dialectical process, I would love to give it a read.
So the thought is basically “let’s get the shitty part out of the way, so we can get to the good stuff.”
Yeah, but Lenin wrote specifically why this (tailism) is a mistake.
“Lenin describes tailism in What Is to Be Done? as the tendency of some activists to drag (like a tail) behind the most progressive elements of the working-class movement, by reflecting in their politics only the most reactionary views of the masses.[1] This is a mistake, because, firstly, it underestimates the political and revolutionary potential of the working class, and secondly, communists must be the revolutionary vanguard of the struggle, not lagging behind it as reactionaries within the movement.”
There is no “burn it all down and let a Socialist utopia rise from the ashes” perspective on the far-left, and I say that as a Marxist. Anarchists wish to build a new society out of the shell of the old, from within, while Marxists advocate building up dual power. In neither case do leftists believe in rising from “ashes,” but building up and replacing the current system.
Two points:
- Prefiguration means "building the new within the shell of the old. Otherwise, you could misunderstand it as some “rise from the ashes” philosophy.
- Prefiguration is a dual power approach, as well.
Re 1:
I don’t see how what I said is different from what you said. My wording pretty clearly included “from within,” it still relies on existing infrastructure and industry but creates new horizontal organizational networks from within. I used to be an Anarchist, I still have knowledge of Anarchism.
Re 2:
Marxist Dual Power and Anarchist Prefiguration are similar approaches but I believe calling them both “dual power” approaches can be very misleading. Marxists and Anarchists want fundamentally different structures in the end and the beginning, agreeing on building up alternatives within existing society does not mean they share anything else truly in common.
too many misunderstand anarchy to be about destroying structures that exist. many of them are doing a pretty good job of that to themselves already, and the ones that are left would rather slaughter us than disarm. it’s the final throes of a dying beast. too dangerous to throw more lives at, but nature will run its course eventually.
so we (anarchists) instead create structure to survive where we are, with the goal of directly helping people help each other, aiming to grow past existing power structures. it has been surprisingly possible to do a lot of praxis without even firebombing a second Chipotle
But what are we going to do as a society if we don’t label all people we don’t like as a radical?
If I’ve learned anything from the collective left, it’s that unity comes second to bickering.
Wedge posts like this don’t help.
How did you come up with 1 billion dollars as the cap? You know that’s an absolutely absurd amount of money right?
That’s far too progressive for liberals, yet I’m not on board with the “burn it all down and let a socialist utopia rise from the ashes” perspective of the far-left.
I don’t know how you combat climate change if you refuse to touch the existing fossil fuel infrastructure.
I don’t know how you address mass incarceration if you won’t dismantle these massive organizations designed to surveil, arrest, and extort poor and homeless people at the scale we operate.
I don’t know how you address greedflation and wage theft on a national scale if you don’t touch the banking system, you leave in place these huge wage disparities, and you permit privatized industry to control all our critical natural resources.
When we talk about this kind of institution going away, we’re talking about creative destruction. Clear space for Green Energy. Establish real civil rights and social justice, rather than a trillion dollar pack of mall cops guarding the richest people’s property. Build an economy that allows public collaboration rather than industrial rent seeking.
That’s not even utopian. It’s just a step forward from capitalism.
It’s just a meme, but is it right to call oneself that in your opinion?