Why would you ask this question on Lemmy. You will get few, if any, legitimate answers. This platform is an echo chamber.
To be fair, every platform is an echo chamber. The only differences are to what degree.
I would agree with this.
Also, for the record, your username is the highlight of my day. Tell me, which ones are lies and which ones are true?
Remove the bottom 75% of IQs in the bell curve, then take that group and choose the top 1/3 of the most technologically literate, then you have lemmy
It’s just that extremely high intelligence and extreme knowledge about tech happen to correlate with certain views that aren’t based on mythological bullshit. But yeah, I guess you could call that an echo chamber?
Ok, am conservative.
I’m going to give my thoughts.
So I’m fine with most things between consenting adults. The problem is when there isn’t consent and in a larger group, a lack of consensus.
Kids can’t consent, and despite claims to the contrary, there’s been a couple of trans kids. The issue I see is the amount of push back on passing laws against trans kids. Why on earth do y’all care so much about banning something that isnt happening?
I’m not into sports, but I can see how unfair it is when a bio man fights a bio woman. Even if they’re taking mtf hormones, there’s still a ton of testorone. Just from a safety aspect, they shouldn’t allow bio men in women’s boxing or MMA or anything like that. Chess and stuff of that nature doesn’t really care about the sex that much. And there’s been more a couple of sports women who are against it too. There’s a lack of consensus.
As an aside, we were making a ton of progress against gender roles, and now here we are reinforcing them. Can’t even wear drag now without being called trans. It’s annoying.
Why are you guys so obsessed with labels? Let dudes wear dresses and women wear whatever. You don’t need a label for it.
Even if they’re taking mtf hormones, there’s still a ton of testorone.
This is factually wrong.
Ok, tentatively, that’s a small sample size, but if it scales up, transwomen still have higher absolute handgrip strength, lower forced expiratory volume in 1 s:forced vital capacity ratio and lower relative V̇O2max. They still went through male puberty and are reaping the benefits.
But a higher expiratory volume and higher VO2max is better. So they have an advantage in grip strength and a disadvantage in everything else…
Also consider that even within cis women, there’s a huge variation in ability. So there are plenty of cis women with a higher grip strength than some trans women.
When we’re talking about trans kids, it’s about puberty blockers. Why force children to go through puberty that they didn’t consent to? Puberty has permanent effects.
You seem misinformed about trans people in sports, but I think the other comment covered it. Also consider that it’s just a small minority of people, most of which are not even doing that well in their sport and just want to participate like anyone else.
And as far as labels go, that’s because of the culture war.
Can’t even wear drag now without being called trans.
The left certainly isn’t saying this. That attitude comes from ignorance and not knowing the difference. If you had interacted with the trans community, you would know that we’re not putting people in boxes or reinforcing gender roles. Especially when you consider nonbinary people.
Labels are actually important. “cross dressing” and being trans are two completely different things. One is personal expression, while the other is identity. A trans man could wear a dress, for example, and it wouldn’t make him less of a man.
Trigger warning: this is a very graphic response. In a bad frame of mind? Emotionally upset easily? Just don’t read it.
The thing that conservatives don’t understand is that if someone is clearly trans at 14 and they start taking puberty blockers and estrogen, they sometimes wind up looking like Kim Petras. Kim Petras sort of looks slightly trans, but mostly, she just looks like a hot chick. She will not have the same easy life a naturally born hot chick would, but it’s going to be much much easier because of what happened when she was an early teenager.
Now let’s say you wait until 18, because kids shouldn’t be pushed into things. Now you have adams apples, larger brow ridges, and worst of all, there are different midface ratios you can’t really correct even with surgery. At a certain point, even will all the estrogen and feminizing surgeries in the world, you will still look like a dude taking estrogen wearing makeup. A person in this situation will have a much harder life. The respectable and admirable Kaitlen Jenner is an example of someone who had tons of money and even then, the facial feminization with all the money in the world can’t change certain ratios when someone transitions at a certain age.
Neither person “passes.” Kim Petras from certain angles occasionally looks Trans. But if she wore conservative makeup and a conservative outfit, she could go somewhere and do something without getting mean dirty looks.
Do you know what it’s like to get mean stares and glares all the time? If you are conservative, you don’t. Any mean look inherently makes a person with any normal limbic system feel bad. Do you know how many dirty looks conservatives gives to different looking people every single day? All these conservatives talk about Bible this and Jesus that and protecting children this and that. A lot of children who feel trans blow their brains out, hang themselves, or jump of tall things once they are adults because they didn’t get puberty blockers and estrogen before their face looked manly and it would require hundreds of thousands of dollars of plastic surgery to correct and the dirty looks and meanness wear them down and eventually, they are just done.
This is not about protecting children, it’s about protecting conservative religious beliefs.
The conservative fear that some woke snowflake mom is going to push her confused depressed kid into chopping of his genitals and pretending to be a woman doesn’t line up with reality and it’s a flawed argument. Being trans is a hard and miserable road and no parent or kid wants it, it’s something that happens, like cancer, that people deal with, but at least with cancer, you get sympathy from everyone, instead of your family disowning you if you are conservative.
I understand the “moderate” perspective on this, but you are totally wrong.
Except for the part about sports. Transgendered people just shouldn’t be able to compete in sports or should have their own league. And liberals arguing otherwise detracts credibility from the much more important issue, which is trans kids should be able to get medical care before they get huge adams apples and brow ridges and longer midfaces and sharper cheekbones and wind up much more likely to commit suicide.
The more important part of the equation is being able to use puberty blockers and take estrogen prior to developing even more manly characteristics. Genital surgery could be done as an adult, but that’s not actually what conservatives want, they want no medication intervention before 18.
If there are concerns about making young teens who are confused infertile, then conservative religitards can subsidize these people freezing their eggs or sperm, but the reality is not that many people change their minds on this. For every random YouTube special filmed by a hardcore catholic showing a schizophrenic female who regrets lopping off her breasts, you have thousands of women who are now trans men who are less likely to die, but the Catholic documentary filmmakers don’t add that in, do they?
Conservatives often point to the horrors of the surgeries. They are horrific. Sometimes if someone reverses their penis and scrotum, hair can grow on the inside of their constructed “vagina” and the whole thing is horrific. But the math is evident: the trans people who do these surgeries are less likely to blow their heads off.
People act like this is an ivory tower debate, but really it’s often there are 2 outcomes: outcome 1 is that Billy with a large browridge, adam’s apple, and manly cheeks, who doesn’t have 150,000 for facial feminization surgery, lays down in front of train tracks at 19 and splat, OR Billy takes puberty blockers and estrogen at 13, becomes Billie, and ends up marrying a mathmatician who doesn’t want to have children for some reason and they live happily ever after despite being an unusual couple.
The fake empathy and outrage Christians have neglects to look at the statistics and the actual outcomes and relies on the availability heuristic/bias to make assumptions. It’s all fine and well to do such ivory tower debates, unless you’re the transgender teen who ends up dead because of it.
Because queerness (trans, gender non conforming, gender fluid, agender, bigender and related) threatens hierarchy.
In western society regardless of how ‘progressive’ some parts of it have gotten, for the majority there’s still a strict hierarchy. Man most important, then woman, then children first boys then girls. Trans people completely disrupt this hierarchy by being able to change what they are and those who cling to hierarchy freak the fuck out over it.
Then there’s the sexual panic, a straight man who’s insecure is gonna freak out if the woman they think is cute actually has a penis.
I don’t agree. For ages in any life or death situation it is woman and children first. Men are the strongest of the bunch, any respectable man is putting his children and wife onto a lifeboat before themselves. You’d have a hard time finding a father/husband who wouldn’t.
Your little scenario explicitly presumes that the man would be the one in charge, making this decision.
Who else would be in charge of a man making the decision to let others go ahead of himself? It is a self made decision, and a selfless one. So of course he is the one making the decision. A woman could just as easily make this decision, if she did would you still be saying “well of course she did, she’s the one on charge!”. I hope not. You just don’t like the fact that when shit hits the fan, oftentimes men are the ones who step up and help others and even sacrifice themselves. Have whatever qualms you will with men, but at least give them credit where they deserve it.
If that were true, then it would be trans men getting the most attention because they’re the ones cheating their way up this hierarchy. In my experience, 99% of the hate is directed at trans women.
If the transphobes thought trans men were men then your comment would be accurate. But they just see them as confused women and easy to just ignore them like they ignore cis women.
(You are right about trans women bearing the brunt of the hate, and I think so much of that is sexual panic from cishet men about finding a penis owner attractive)
Meh, I don’t know if it’s strictly a hierarchy thing. I think it’s probably more “just” a heteronormative thing. Closed-minded people who don’t like things or people that are different. Fear of difference. I’m just speculating, here.
I can also see the sexual panic aspect.
I’m going to get all sorts of fun responses for trying to empathize with those with whom I disagree (instead of just writing “dumb bigots”) but here goes:
First, remember that even gay marriage is fairly new to America, it’s been around for less time than the MCU.
There are a lot of folks who almost have mental whiplash, gay marriage went from illegal to “you could get fired for being vocally uncomfortable about it” in fairly quick order.
Now, to make things even more wild for those folks, mainstream culture is pretty insistent that gender isn’t even a thing anymore. Add in some pretty wild news stories/videos*, worries for their kids and the notion that the Left refuses to say there might be any issues whatsoever and you can kinda see where a backlash could crop up.
- eg: trans women being reassigned to women’s prisons and then assaulting the women etc, a 6"2, 220lb woman practically murdering her handball oppoisition, some fairly sketchy research practices by some of the authorities (WPATH) on the subject etc.
You were doing reasonably well, until you diverted to pure transphobia in the last paragraph
Bruh check out the guys post history, read their comment history, they arent exactly a trans ally
Not the list, but the way you described them, as if these were things that actually happen…
mainstream culture
Talk to any random person on the street and they don’t fucking care about identity politics.
Extremists are not the mainstream no matter how much they shout about it.
There’s a reason conservatives campaign against “woke.” And most conservatives I know socially called the election a win against woke, even if they couldn’t exactly name a woke policy that Harris proposed.
Harris explicitly didn’t play identity politics, and I applaud her for it. I think the left is starting to realise even people who agree with them dislike being told what to think … one can dream right.
No, most people aren’t going out of their way to hurt trans people, but those loud extremists are creating a negative connotation in some people’s minds. That’s no different from racism.
Extremists on both sides are a problem, so when you say “those loud extremists” a reasonable person would have no idea who you’re talking about. I think you’re correct in either instance, but I doubt that’s what you where going for.
Can we compromise? No trans people in sports and trans people have their own unique prison or cell block and young teens can take puberty blockers and estrogen so they don’t need to try to pay 150,000 in facial feminization plastic surgery at 18 or 19, money of which they can only get quickly from sex work and not going to school? Sound like a good compromise?
I don’t know what the answers are!
A lot of this stuff is mostly at the state level which seems almost reasonable.
I imagine the big actual fight on this would come down to when are parents able to over-ride their kids wishes and vice versa. It’s a shitty battle for trans kids; if you don’t let them access medicine early, it puts them on a brutal path as you pointed out. But I also can’t imagine conservatives would be chill letting their kids alter their sex at such a young age. (From the parents’ perspective, what if this is just some teenage drama with lifelong repercussions?)
We don’t let kids get tattoos (and thank Christ for that, otherwise I’d probably have Wolverine fighting the Zerg on my chest or something) this seems bigger.
I dunno, like most real world issues, it’s tricky. And at the fun intersection of children and a rapidly changing perspective of gender, well damn, there are going to be some ugly fights.
I just don’t think it’s as much of a random fad for kids as conservatives worry.
the analogy of “oh i want a cool new weird haircut/strange tattoo” = same as getting hormones and genital altering surgery seems incorrect to me
kids are not that stupid at that age and gender is mostly hardwired. i just don’t think kids of that age would take it trivially
many trans kids exhibit extreme opposite gender behavior from very early ages. I am not talking about boys liking pink or not liking trucks, i am talking about boys crying because they can’t wear dresses and hating the male parts of their body. There is something that happens to some XY or XX brains in utero that causes the default brain wiring that causes certain behavior to be the opposite of what it normally is. This shouldn’t be that unfathomable. There are animals that contain DNA from before certain evolutions (like tailless animals having tail DNA) and it’s just turned off. The idea that epigenetics, prenatal hormone levels, and endocrine disruptors can’t alter sexual identity development isn’t really supported by data, and even though the exact way transgenderism occurs isn’t fully understood, it’s not caused by some evil Satanic vodoo or a liberal Hollywood plot.
The only reason why this isn’t accepted as true is an anti-science mentality caused by religion, and your response is biased by religion or conformity whether you realize it or not.
I’ll try actually answer the question and get hated for it I’m sure rather than circle jerking something to the top. But I think it goes like this.
Imagine you had a ball and a cube. Then everyone agrees the ball is a ball and a cube is a cube. Been like this as long as anyone remembers.
Then suddenly someone comes around and says one of those cubes is special and is actually a ball. Then everyone agrees that person is mental. Years go by and more people start saying that some cubes are balls and you feel like you are losing you mind. You know what a ball is, everyone knows what a ball is! How can anyone say a cube is a ball. People attack you for it. People say you are wrong that you are hateful, horrible but you know! Surely everyone knows this is a joke.
They started painting cubes to look like balls and everyone acts like they are balls. But you know they aren’t balls.
You are happy to group them on different measures. Sure some balls and some cubes are red, some are yellow. Both balls and cubes can be spiky, sure balls are more often spiky but there is nothing wrong with a spiky cube. Each to there own. Most cubes are smooth but some balls are smooth. That’s fine.
There are a million and one ways to group these shapes. But at the end of the day a cube is a cube and a ball is a ball. Anything else is madness and you’re not standing for it. You can group them however you want, choose whatever is the most important, fine is doesn’t matter. But don’t say something that is obviously a cube is a ball and what is obviously a ball a cube. You can’t change the definition of a cube to be what that shapes feels it is, that’s meaningless. It defeats the purpose of the word. Sure make a new word but don’t use that word.
But at the end of the day a cube is a cube and a ball is a ball. Anything else is madness and you’re not standing for it.
This is the crux of where you are wrong. There’s more than just cubes and balls, but because of society, stigma and restrictive laws in some countries, everyone has to try and fit themselves into a cube or a ball, even though they might be egg shaped.
