Alright, so, something I’ve been talking about with my therapist a lot, but I thoughts folks out here could have interesting povs.
To sum it up, I’m constantly trying to act like a saint (figuratively, I’m an atheist). There’s one exception to this, people holding power and making others miserable in any way.
But basically, you know, this whole mentality of banishing anger, jealousy, egoism, selfishness, greed, desire for power and authority and all that? That’s me.
I don’t mean I manage to do so constantly, but that’s what I strive for.
One could think, and I did think, it was a desire for social praise. But really, when I get praised, which happen a lot, I don’t care and that’s more awkward that anything (like : woa dude, it’s not the Oscars or something, chill out). And little by little, I started to think it didn’t have much to do with being praised, that’s just striving to live as I think it’s better to live. To live a life I’ll me content with when the grim reaper will come and all praises won’t mean anything anymore.
My therapist thinks it’s not really an issue as long as it doesn’t cause myself pain (which it does because I’m deaf to my own needs 50% of the times).
But I don’t see a satisfying way to live apart from that.
One potential misinterpretation I’d like to prevent. It’s a very strong drive, but it doesn’t make me blind. It really doesn’t happen a lot but whenever I’m angry, I’m not feeling guilty. I know why I feel this, it’s just that I didn’t have any other way to manage a situation/feeling. I’ll just strive to do better next time by trying to modify the situation so that anger will not be the most probable answer.
Do you find it weird? Anyone adopting this kind of behavior? Maybe everyone does. It may sound a bit megalomaniac, like hey I’m exceptional, but it really isn’t what I mean. To my own eyes, I’m not a bad or a good person. I’m just trying to be what I want. If somebody tries to be someone different, it’s all fine by me.
TL;DR : Is having high moral standards for one’s self weird or toxic? Does my message actually sound megalomaniac?
It sounds like scrupulosity OCD.
I’m not a therapist or any variety of professional on the topic. I will tell you it sounds unhelpful to remove emotions. I know there are similar practices in things like Stoicism. But many people take those practices to extremes. You don’t sound like you’re doing anything like 100% extreme about emotional suppression but you are probably overdoing it like 80% extreme. If that makes sense.
Emotions are useful. They’re informational reactions to the world around us. I’m an extremely emotional person (big happies, big mads, big sads, etc) and sometimes letting that loose is a huge problem. I can make myself physically sick if I don’t regulate my emotions and reactions. But I learned and practiced how to feel my emotions and then let them pass, rather than trying to stomp them out entirely. Which never really works. Suppression just pushes the problems to your future self. It’s not a relief or release.
So I guess I’m trying to say, you’re not at all wrong for what you’re trying to accomplish. But I think you’re probably not going to succeed or improve (in the way that you want) going about it the way you have been. I’d recommend finding counselors who understand how to teach effective emotional regulation techniques, or practice meditation.
I believe I try to live my life in a very similar way. I believe there are a lot of us who try to do this. But I do not believe everyone does that. There are many people who are malicious and they know they are. Also I feel the same about pride and praise. In the past I was pointed out I hold myself in too high regard which can result in me beeing patronizing. And I try to work on that since then. Because I feel this is not right and I do want to strive for right.
Especially you wrote in comments something like: You try to do your best considering your environment, your own limitations and even your own weakneses.
So given that, I believe you are making one mistake. I would like to expand on your limitations part.
If you feel this behavior makes you forget your needs this in not “the best you could do”. This is the same as you forgetting to sleep.
If you are forgetting about yourself like rest, having fun, eat properly, maintaining your mental health. This is not your best or “perfect behaviour” in long term. Because of ignoring your own needs you will not be able to do your best tomorrow or in 10 years or will live few years less to do good or you will not have friends or be part of a community to achieve even better things together. Something like that.
Also another thought popped in my mind I do not have an answer for and I would like to see your perspective on that. I try to avoid as little responsibility as I can. And I see myself as one who is trying to do his best. But. But when I look on myself objectively I live quite a normal life: I have a job and a family and some hobbies. I try to be there for my friends and family. So asking myself. How is this the best I can do? I am not volunteering or anything like that? So is this “feeling” I am trying my best just a cover for comfort, so I do not have to do some real sacrifices for community?
First, kind stranger, thank you very much for you answer. It’s quite funny that I used to be quite patronizing too until I went through a major depression and became a slightly different person.
And yes I think I see what you mean. My therapist recently told me something quite close, but I’m not sure I’ll find the words to translate it to English. But yes, clearly, I’m trapped in a “overdoing-collapse” cycle I still need to learn to manage in a better way. Although… maybe I’m making progress in this regard, I tend to collapse less and less heavily, and I sometimes take breaks.
The thought you brought up us very interesting, and my own answer us quite simple. To contextualize, I’ve been active in a few community organizations in the past, then it all stopped when I moved to another city. Now, I just happen to like people I sometimes meet and try to behave as I described. But it’s quite close to a normal life too. Closer than before at least.
And so, I met a thought similar to yours a few days ago, an answer came from my heart : “I don’t know. But what I know is that wishing I was something/someone else that the thing/person I am, trying to force myself to do something I currently can’t do is preparing myself for a life of guilt and misery, and likely make my loved ones pay for this guilt and misery. And that can’t be good”.
How does this sound to you? I’m not sure about it, but I’ve sticked with this answer ever since.
This answer is very good and is consistent with with your belief to consider your limitations.
However I see myself somehow different since I do not have depression or other mental issues I am aware of.
So I believe I could take some extra time to volunteer and I hope I will be able to bring myself to do just that. But since I have a young baby it will of course be time limited. So I will probably start small and just take a bag to my walks and pickup some trash.
Although making this conversation feels like bragging to myself that I am a good person (by trying my best).
But hey this conversation is still very interesting and I would like to keep it going.
Do you believe religions/churches are meant to be just communities of people who try to be the best versions of themselves? (Of course in different ways and for different reasons - like to achieve eternal life)
Also how easy do you find changing your character to match what you would like to be? Eg. Becoming not patronizing.
I found it somehow very easy to come from me being a geek and being somewhat awkward around kids to be the funny uncle. Or by not liking animals to now owning a cat.
I like this conversation very much too. And I like the way you describe your will to volunteer and your conception of the steps ahead.
As for religions, I’m not certain. I can really like and admire people who live and love deeply something in the religious faith. Alone or with others. But communities… I’m not saying social control is bad in itself but this type of social control is rather frightening to me.
And changing… What a topic! Did you ever try to measure the time it takes you to change on a specific aspect? It’s a very strange yet reassuring experience. I used to do this a lot, a bit less nowadays, but for example, I’d write :
“learn to handle praise to be as kind as possible with others, understanding it as” somehow I kinda like something in you" and accept the kindness but be unsettled by the praise itself, or, better, make yourself truly incapable of understanding it as a praise"
in a notebook, because it was a very often present in my thoughts and then, after writing, forget about it. Let things unfold organically without giving it much thoughts. An indeterminate time later, I’d be praised for school performance, for example, and… somehow, in a way I couldn’t fully understand, I both felt I understood the praise and I didn’t really know what to make of it, all the sudden.
Then, a few weeks later, after processing the event, grab my notebook and write : “8 months”.
It’s quite interesting, and gives a little sense of : “Hmmm… this may take quite a time, but let’s see when/how/by which ways I’ll try to get there… or at least somewhere close!”
I’m not OP but, I think it says a lot about the kind of person you are if you’re even just thinking about trying your best constantly. Plus your life honestly sounds close to the ideal that most people here are chasing, if you’re content with that that, then I don’t think there’s anything wrong with continuing to live your life as you fit. Also, I think everyone always has things they could do better and that’s just how it is
You were so busy being moral you forgot to consider what morality means.
You may want to familiarize yourself with the philosophy of Stoicism. It sounds very similar to what you describe. I’d recommend starting with a “sampler” like “The Daily Stoic,” by Ryan Holiday. Epictetus and Marcus Auralius are two of the biggest names in terms of “fathers” of this philosophy.
Don’t go by whatever impression Hollywood or society may have left you with about the word “stoic.” It doesn’t mean “without emotion.”
My caveat to this is that many of the foundational individuals to stoicism, as well as present influencers, are members of the upper class, and while there are a lot of great ideas in there, stoicism can often be distilled into a philosophy of rugged individualism which is more easily achieved with wealth, power, and privilege.
I am of the opinion that stoicism is good, but a disproportional number of those who practice it are often out of touch.
Epictetus was a slave most of his life and then banished at the end. I would disagree with the wealthy comment. Nelson Mandela embraced stoicism to get him through his prison term. I’m not sure where your perception comes from, but a major tenant is not putting emphasis on wealth or material goods.
ETA - my deleted comment above was just me moving this one down to be in the appropriate hierarchy.
Many ancient practitioners of stoicism were wealthy statesmen, including emperors. And, the literate elite were certainly enamored with it. I’m not a historian, but stoicism was shaped by wealthy and powerful people, as was every popular philosophy.
I’m not opposed to it. I like aspects of Stoicism. But, When it comes to wealth, it always rubbed me the wrong way. It seemed so often to me that wealthy stoics make a virtue out of possessing, but not coveting wealth, and in doing so make a vice of dissatisfaction with one’s wealth. For a rich man, this is reasonable. However, a poor man is correct to be dissatisfied. Poor men need to be angry, and to rise up and demand wealth (in my opinion), their pain and anguish is meant to be felt and to stoke action.
Stoicism is not often presented as compatible with this mindset of mine. I’m sure there are types of stoicism which address this, but most influencers seem to present Stoicism though a relatively uncritical lense.
