why: so the government won’t be able to use your money for whatever the fuck they’re planning for the next 4 years.
as a traveler, none of my money has been funding Israel, for example.
one-step method: you basically fill out one extra tax form called FEIE while you’re doing your taxes, write down the dates you were outside of the country, and then since you aren’t in the country and are not receiving any services from the US, you don’t have to pay income tax up to a certain amount (it’s a little over 125k this year).
But if you earn over the threshold, you’re expected to pay taxes to the US government, no matter where you’re actually living or working, no matter if you’re also paying taxes wherever you currently are. The US is the only country in the world to assert that it has the right to tax its citizens remotely in this manner. It’s not normal.
The US has double taxation treaties with over 60 countries. When you pay taxes somewhere else, you deduct all of that tax from your US taxes above the $125k.
Though I definitely agree the IRS shouldn’t need these treaties, because if you’re not living there, why should you even need to file?
They also charge you a crazy exit tax if you want to give up citizenship in order to save on taxes. They always get their pound of flesh.
“over the threshold, you’re expected to pay taxes”
sort of, that’s the “up to 125k” limit part of the FEIE(readjusted for inflation every year).
you still don’t pay taxes on the first 125k.
earning more than 125k is not a problem most people have.
The problem most people have is not knowing that the feie exists in the first place and there are legal, straightforward ways to avoid paying income tax while saving money traveling.
“no matter if you’re also paying taxes wherever you currently are…”
this is very iffy and depends on a lot of factors.
again, for most regular people, foreign income tax credits will erase most financial duties to the US.
“The US is the only country in the world…”
nearly.
“It’s not normal.”
nope, it’s definitely weird and it sucks.
but at least there’s the FEIE.
Double taxation treaties are very common. What I’ve been told by US coworkers makes the US stand out is that you still need to file your taxes with the IRS, even when living abroad. No idea if that’s actually the case.
I have lived outside my native country for a while and only had to file taxes in my country of residence (neither of which is the US), because there’s a DTAA in place between the two.
That said, if you’re making over 100k trumps tax cuts will probably be pretty nice for you.
Not if you live in a state with state and local income tax. They capped SALT deductions, so you’re basically paying tax on taxed income.
The exemption only applies to earned income, meaning you cannot apply any of that $125k to stuff like investment returns, dividends, royalties, or rents collected.
That’s right.
The Foreign Earned Income Exclusion specifically applies to earned income, and does not apply to unearned income.
I always find it mad as hell that Americans have to pay tax in the US even if they are living and earning elsewhere
Especially given generally Americans are pretty allergic to reasonable taxation
yeah it is totally banana stacks, and nobody tells anybody else how to get around that, of course.
since nobody knows the sacred knowledge anyway.
some tax guy, not my tax guy, just a random guy who worked in taxes, offhandedly mentioned it to me like it was no big deal one day and I was like whaaaat?
most of the expats I know just don’t pay taxes because they’re dumb, or they’re paying taxes that they don’t need to because nobody told them about the FEIE.
You still need to file every year. An advisor at least here in Germany can do both countries, but you pay a premium for that.
I addressed that in a comment but I did not include that in the body.
fixed.
The FEIE is super simple to fill out.
I heard you need to file every year even if you’ve never lived in the US.
I read somewhere that Eritrea (the North Korea of Africa) is the only other country that has this policy.
However, since you don’t pay taxes on that money, it can impact which kinds of retirement accounts you can use based in the US, if any. Also, trying to invest as a US citizen outside the US can suck because of all the agreements with US banks. Many Japanese platforms, for instance, won’t touch me because of US reporting requirements. I also can’t functionally use the tax-advantaged retirement accounts here because many amount to what are called PFICs by the IRS which requires paperwork and are taxed punitively more than wiping out any advantage the retirement accounts would have.
You’re also going to have a rough time getting a US investment account if you don’t have one already. Then you have to figure out how to have a US phone number because two-factor auth basically requires it for any bank or anything that will touch you.
There are other “fun” things about being a US citizen living abroad.
Do you live abroad? I’m expatting in a few weeks (long planned, not in a pure panic due to Trump) and would love ask a few questions if so!
I can try to answer. I’ve lived in Japan for almost a decade (this is my 10th year).
That’s so cool!
How old (ish) were you when you moved?
Did you speak any Japanese before?
Any consideration towards relocating again?
Any other stories you want to share?
ありがとうございます、友達
“However, since you don’t pay taxes on that money, it can impact which kinds of retirement accounts you can use, if any”
The math works out in your favor.
wouldn’t you rather have that money earning interest now rather than receiving a few hundred later on when you probably don’t need it as much?
“Also, trying to invest as a US citizen outside the US can suck because of all the agreements with US banks.”
it can suck, and it can also be awesome.
I see you’re speaking specifically to Japanese banking standards, which I would agree are one of the more difficult countries for a US citizen to interface with.
but that’s a great thing about there being about 200 countries.
Bank somewhere else if you want to.
try Hong Kong or China or Thailand or Portugal or Sweden or you know, a lot of countries.
you don’t have to live in the country you bank in.
Yeah, some is specific to Japan, though there will be similar hurdles anywhere the US has an agreement (and that the target country’s institutions actually follow it, I suppose).
I have a couple of retirement accounts in the US that I contributed to before (I moved overseas in my early 30s) that I basically can’t touch for a number of reasons right now. Just wanted to throw it out there.
If you were employed by a foreign company that has no presence in the US how exactly would the IRS know whether you’ve earning more than $125k?
Because money keeps getting deposited in your bank account every two weeks and you’re not reporting any income.
Banks hand all of that information over.
Maybe I’m not understanding what you mean, but if someone works and lives abroad for 330 days of the year they’ll likely have a bank account established within that country so that they don’t have to deal with all of their daily financial activities being international transactions.
There is a system whereby foreign banks are obligated to report accounts held by Americans to the US for “anti terrorism” purposes.
And as a us citizen you are also obligated to report all of your foreign accounts in a FBAR filing each year.
Perhaps I’m the one who misread. I took OP’s comment as saying working for a foreign company with no presence in the US while living in the US. On a second read, that might not be what they meant.
they wouldn’t know initially.
you report your income, and then if the IRS suspects foul play, they would check later.
If you’re making over 125k, then you’ll likely have some kind of connected web/media presence that would allow them to at least circumstances confirm your position and standing within the field.
they could also check your bank balance and international holdings against the amount you said you’ve been making and see if it matches up.
they could also check your bank balance and international holdings against the amount you said you’ve been making and see if it matches up.
Does the IRS have authority to issue such requests to foreign banks? How would the IRS even know what foreign bank to issue these requests to?
Sorry, I have no knowledge about what information is communicated across international borders with regards to the banking world and how this gets tracked on a per-individual basis.
“Does the IRS have authority to issue such requests to foreign banks?”
issue requests, sure.
and companies with an international presence or countries with a working relationship with the US would be happy to respond to the IRS at least in rough confirmation.
4 out of 5 people in the US would never have to worry about making more than $125 k a year, but if you’re reporting $60,000 annual income and then buying a house every year, the IRS would start looking into it.
irs interest depends on how large the income disparity appears to be before they start officially investigating and probing for more certain corroboration and confirmations.
it’s just like your taxes in the US.
If you have a yard sale and don’t report it, the IRS isn’t going to pay attention to the extra $200 you didn’t report that year unless you happened to sell a personal boat later that year for 200k.
it’s all about what flags the interest of the IRS.
“How would the IRS even know what foreign bank to issue these requests to?”
If you have over 10,000 usd abroad in total, all foreign holdings included, you are required to file what is called an fbar that year, which really is I think five fields on one form, you fill out the name of the Bank, address, the country and the amount.
that’s so the IRS can keep tabs on. approximately how much you’re making versus how much you say you’re making if you’re keeping your savings overseas.
“…gets tracked on a per-individual basis.”
No worries, these are all great questions and I’m treating them like a refresher course.
The IRS is largely dependent on self-reporting whether us citizens or residents are inside or outside of the country, which largely works because maintaining a believable fiction about your income is not easy to consistently pull off and consequences for self-reporting income incorrectly are so much higher than the amount of taxes most people are going to pay that it makes sense to self-report as accurately as you can.
The federal government is well aware whenever a person enters the country and quite possibly for exiting.
yes, customs and border protection keeps records of legal entries and exits to and from the US.
why?
