Last I saw something like 55% of the populace looks like it voted for trump. In these crazy pants times I do not see bernie winning.
Many who voted democrat in 2020 voted republican in 2024 because the billionaire class convinced them democrats caused inflation when democrats said they would tax billionaires.
Imagine what they would do to Bernie.
No, blue voters didn’t vote for Republicans. This is the second thread I see you posting this misinformation when it’s not remotely true outside of ONE demographic (Latino men). Left of centre democrats just didn’t show up to the polls (and they had no reason to, tbh).
You can look up the turnout numbers yourself, it’s literally headline news.
Edit: nvm, you seem to have it out for Bernie and think Biden/Harris was a fine ticket even when Dems were asking Biden to step down. I see your game.
Stayed home, or had their votes discarded because of hanging chads? We’ll never know because there was no challenge issued.
What no political theory does to a mfer
Trump offers a fake anti-establishment for people who are rightfully mad at the state. Only a working class party can direct that towards actual improvement.
Problem is obviously that a working class party wouldn’t be funded and backed by billionaire capitalists the way the duopoly is; that’s the point of liberal “democracies” — keeping capitalist parties in power.
I’m not impressed by this analysis.
- It doesn’t account for those who stayed home.
- It doesn’t account those who would have voted for Sanders instead of Trump if that option were actually available to them.
- Who did they think would be excited to volunteer to canvass for Democratic genocidaires? The DNC knowingly forfeited their ground game.
I really cannot see how anyone who would vote for trump would vote for sanders. its like apples and poison ivy. I don’t get those who don’t vote in a democracy either. I hate living in this eroding time period but way the hell glad to be living when democracy is considered the standard form of government. On tope of it we get to vote for the office, and get to vote for people to run for the office, and can sign signatures to get people on the ballot to run for office. I feel like people really don’t have a good sense of human history.
We literally saw it happen. It is well documented. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanders–Trump_voters
You are not intelligent or informed. 20% voted him in. 55% of the people who voted comes out to about 40% of the eligible voters nationally.
Going passed the disinformation in your first line. The people who vote are all that matter in a democracy. The others are basically dependent on their decision making regardless of if its because they can’t or won’t.
Why do different elections have different vote totals? Why is non-voting a significant bloc?
You are not intelligent or informed.
Going passed the disinformation in your first line.
lmao “It’s disinformation when someone calls me unintelligent and uninformed”. What happened, did you get tired of people telling you “that’s not what ad hominem means” and reach for the next rhetorical pejorative that crossed your mind?
He’s right. In a declining capitalist state like the current US, workers want change. In the absence of a genuine working class party that correctly blames capitalism and the capitalist class for a revolution, you get a “radical” capitalist-funded party that at least points the blame at someone — marginalized people.
The dems only offer to preserve the status quo, and no one fucking wants the status quo.
Get organized. Liberal democracies in the imperial core historically always slide to fascism.
Reread your post and then really consider if that rhetoric would get >50% of the vote. It’s just more academic jibberish that falls flat outside coastal cities.
That’s not the message to voters, that’s the message to thinking people who are evaluating the problem. The message to voters is much more simple. Point the finger where the blame lies, and tell the people what you’ll do for them. Of course no serious funding will come your way if you try that though, since the corpos running the country aren’t going to donate to a candidate who seeks to unseat them. There you see is the root of the problem. It’s not a government of the people, by the people, unless you believe that silly lie that corporations are people.
Any example at hand of these liberal democracies that hystorically always slide to fascism? What does imperial core mean?
Primarily referring to Germany and Italy’s descent into fascism, and we’re currently seeing this happen in France, and now in the US. These countries only see a shift to the left with an external force, like Scandinavian states giving concessions to the working class when the nearby USSR posed the threat of a good example — and by extension, the threat of a working class revolution; of course, these concessions are gradually being taken away now.
Imperial core countries refers to colonizer countries that now control financial institutions like the IMF and World Bank, and depend on the continued exploitation of former colonies.
I specify liberal democracies in imperial core countries because we have seen limited successes for the left outside it. Like Allende coming to power in Chile (before being overthrown in a US-backed coup 2 years later), or now Lula and Claudia coming to power in Brazil and Mexico.
Sorry, I’m italian. We’ve been fascists forever. The partito comunista italiano that wrote after ww2 the antifascist Italian constitution, with other parties obviously, had to allow the birth of movimento sociale Italiano: too many fascists, impossible to manage the situation, they had to organize. Although there are signs of significative active civil resistance, the matter it’s that Italian people are fascist. Full stop. Also Italy has never been a liberal democracy, nor a fully free democracy, with usa helping terrorism (mainly, you guessed it, the far right one) during the 70s for example, and heavily meddling in our politics, at least until Enrico berlinguer was alive. I mean. We got the pope, for 2000 years, approx. You’re invited to live in a country whose parliament sends laws to Vaticano, before discussing them; just in case, you know, they have a say.
Finally, being one of the few leftists left (I liked the pun) in Europe, I’m just waiting for putin to die, he’ll have to, because I have no other choice than waiting. I just hope that USA won’t wage the nth war in between, as they already helped the xenophobic nationalist far right Europeans movements a bit too much, in recent years.
So no, I cannot agree with you. I hope you see i’m disagreeing in a civil manner.
Have a nice day, thank you for your time and kind response.
PS USA crying about Trump? I mean, we had Berlusconi in politics for ~20 years. Been there, done that, ~25 years earlier.
Edit I hope I don’t have to remind anyone that modern dictatorship was born in Italy, under the name of fascism. Yeah, keep hoping
It’s an interesting ending to an otherwise fine comment. Bernie would slide the US towards liberal democracy, further from fascism
That’s not how Capitalism or fascism works. Capitalism is in constant decay, this decay leads to sharpening contradictions and fascism is deployed to protect Capitalist interests. Bernie would not end Capitalism, he may only slow it’s rate of descent, not stop it or reverse it. A great work on fascism is Blackshirts and Reds. I can provide a longer Marxism intro reading list if you’d like, but Blackshirts is a great start.
Imo, that fact that people voted and vote in the USA doesn’t mean that USA isn’t a fascist country. Just look at how bullishly they waged wars, and made millions of people suffer torture, pain, abandonment. They’re the epitome of “me ne frego!”
It’s not that liberal democracies always slide, specifically, it’s that Capitalist states always slide, and this is heightened by being in the Global North. Global North countries brutally explioit Global South countries via Imperialism, by relying on vastly under-paid labor and selling it in the Global North for higher prices.
Fascism is Capitalism in decay, the violent immune system employed by the Capitalist class. A great work on fascism is Blackshirts and Reds. I can provide a longer Marxism intro reading list if you’d like, but Blackshirts is a great start.
I also recommend Imperialism, the Highest Stage of Capitalism, and the famous Yellow Parenti Speech (a small excerpt here.
It’s worth noting that “fascism” specifically is a eurocentric — or even more specifically a 20th century-centric — ideology. You could argue the US has always been “fascist”, just that the fascism has been focused on people outside it — the countries it constantly wages wars on. Still a good way to describe the direction declining capitalist states are headed to, I guess.
You could argue the US has always been “fascist”, just that the fascism has been focused on people outside it
Hitler was inspired on how to treat the Jews, Romani, disabled, and queers, based on how we treated Native Americans and Black Americans. He saw the country doing so well in the world stage excluding millions from the same status and privilege as the normalized default, and thought it would work for Germany and Europe, by force.
America was founded by rich white oligarchs, it was never going to support anything good without a lot of people letting go unless they died.
EDIT: Sorry if you get double pinged, server had a hiccup as I was posting.
Fascism is Capitalism in decay, the violent immune system employed by the Capitalist class. A great work on fascism is Blackshirts and Reds. I can provide a longer Marxism intro reading list if you’d like, but Blackshirts is a great start.
Even here in Europe where there are genuine left wing parties, where there’s proportional representation, where we have mistly functional education, labour class people are voting for folks who blame poor people and immigrants for everything that goes wrong. I think part of the blame is with tabloid style media and social media magnifying formerly fringe opinion. Just saying that having a real alternative for the populist right, might not be enough.
The republican party and adjacent is mostly white nationalists, what would make you think that they would switch to voting for a Jewish person? He would have unfortunately lost.
Bernie can’t even garner the support of his own party, let alone the whole country. What are you guys on??
Not to mention the constant complaint about old people in politics while demanding more of this dinosaur?
Bernie has a lot more energy than Trump and Biden combined, tbh.
He doesnt get support because he actually supports the working class. The fundamental thing us left folks have to accept is the democratic party simply isnt a left wing party. The left doesnt exist anymore in the US.
The parties are right wing conservatives called Democrats vs fascist psychopaths that call themselves Conservatives.
The reality simply is that the left is the right, and the right isnt even on the chart anymore. The actual left doesnt even have representation at this point.
Voters have to start getting a lot louder about this, in more obnoxious ways. Protesting has to happen, at minimum.
You think the party elects presidents? It doesn’t. People do, not politicians or parties. Your myopic view is what’s wrong with American elections, particularly Democrats: the idea that a party can win by virtue of appeal to the machine.
Bernie would have won in 2016 if HRC, Wasserman-Schultz, Donna Brasil, and the DNC hadn’t subverted his nomination. Again in 2020 if the DNC, Kamala, and the other candidates hadn’t dropped out in favor of Biden against Sanders.
The idea that any candidate is owed the presidency is fucked. So is your misunderstanding of the problem.
