A lot less annoying then endlessly filtering content by community and user
Personally I kind of don’t want everybody to be like-minded, because that becomes an echo chamber. What I’m after on Lemmy is people willing to explore subjects objectively, without beating the bushes for enemies or competing for upvotes.
The downside of that is the filter bubble or echo chamber effect. Question is whether Lemmy should be a fun experience for you or something to broaden your horizons a little
You can listen to people try to convince you that Russia’s war is justified and that Tienamen Square never happened for a while if you want, then make up your mind and block them later ;-).
I mean, personally I am not here to discuss politics or get the news. I’m here for memes and nerding out. All that real-world shit doesn’t vibe. I wanna laugh.
Bruh. It’s not an echo chamber to filter out literal Nazis and other stuff. Ain’t nobody changing their mind from “spirited” internet debate and I don’t need their garbage in my day.
If you really mean “literal Nazis”, that tends to support the hypothesis that you’re not being exposed to much that contradicts your worldview.
Tell me more about how you must listen to literal Nazis on a daily basis to contradict your worldview.
And if you don’t think Lemmy has or has had to deal with literal Nazis:
Lol
There are many that were defederated many months ago that aren’t even the common ones discussed. I forget some of their names but you can review the defed lists. They are beyond the pale, open open racism, calls for open violence, CP, etc. I’m not talking about some double speak, bad policy maga stuff, I’m talking about cartoons showing minorities as animals, cartoons of lynchings, etc.
The fediverse is a big place.
Edit who the fuck downvotes this
I was speaking to the general practice of filtering in response to the echo chamber generalization, not the original post calling out instances. Personally I filter out porn instances because that’s not what I’m here for. The nice thing about the app I use is that I don’t see any posts from those instances but I can choose to see comments because people interacting on the posts I see are generally there for random reasons and are reacting instead of posting their whatever.
Counterpoint: filtering out the furry communities by blocking a single instance
Honestly if the furies want to have there own space that’s fine. Just don’t invade the rest of Lemmy. Same goes for hexbear and whatever else.
I feel like the term echo chamber gets thrown around a lot. Imo an echo chamber has to be highly specific. I wouldn’t classify every monolingual person as trapped in an echo chamber for example. I would also argue against to idea of having to be weary of creating your own echo chamber online. Use social media how you like, the solution to echo chambers is going outside and touching grass not forcing yourself to interact with every community on the internet.
It’s an echo chamber whether you think that’s a bad thing or not, only being exposed to one type of view point is what an echo chamber is. And people probably should be exposed to opinions they disagree with, but it doesn’t have to be constantly, and it doesn’t have to be when they’re already stressed or tired, for the sake of their mental health.
I wouldn’t classify every monolingual person as trapped in an echo chamber
Simply being something isn’t an echo chamber, you have to have a thought or opinion being shared by the group. If every person you interact with only speaks one language, and they all share that one language is the best method of communication, that’s an echo chamber.
Use social media how you like
I agree. Although it is useful to be aware of your own biases.
the solution to echo chambers is going outside and touching grass not forcing yourself to interact with every community on the internet.
Assuming you don’t mean literally “touch grass”, the solution is seeking out opinions/thoughts outside of your echo chamber. That doesn’t necessarily mean forcing yourself to interact with terrible communities, but being aware and understanding (but not agreeing with) them.
Although I again refer to using social media how you like is fine. No one needs to be exposed to certain communities. It’s not wrong or lazy or bad to ignore certain communities or viewpoints, especially toxic ones. However you should be aware that they exist and it can be helpful, if you choose, to understand where they come from.
As a harmless example, if you don’t like brussel sprouts and none of your friends like brussel sprouts, it may benefit you to try brussel sprouts or to seek out and talk to or read about people who like brussel sprouts. You can still at the end of the day dislike brussel sprouts. You don’t have to change your opinion. But now your opinion is more well rounded.
Like most things, there’s a sliding scale. I block two instances (in my client) because of the high noise-to-signal ratio, and a few individuals who I find particularly obnoxious. I’ve never blocked anyone who I thought was trying to have a good-faith argument with me, regardless of their position. But I also don’t feel obligated to stand and listen to the MAGA dipshit shouting obscenities at minorities, either. Is it an echo chamber? No more than me not watching Fox “News”.
Although, Lemmy leans strongly left, and the instances are tankie ones; there isn’t a lot of right-leaning posting IME. I think this is a particularly difficult time for reasonable conservatives because of how their party has been co-opted by fascists. The instances I’m on doesn’t do a lot of defederating, but I know just by virtue of being on Lemmy, I’m getting a left bias.
Yeah I’m not sure that there are any real conservatives left. Like I would have thought that Liz Cheyney was one, but look what happened to her, despite how high-profile she was.
George W. Bush was even a progressive, funding schools and feeding homeless people etc. But then the Tea Party - Ted Cruz, Newt Gingrich, Sarah Palin, etc. - started taking over control from that old guard of actual conservatives, both fiscal and cultural (wouldn’t Mitch McConnell and Lindsey Graham qualify here as good examples?). However, before that process could finish, the Alt Right started up, with even moar-er(-est) “alternative facts” and literally neonazi propaganda, leaning heavily on the blatant racism components (rather than hiding behind “wish we could help but the budget you know…”). And now I’m not sure if what is here is even still the Alt Right or something else altogether.
I think if Ron Desantis had won the nomination things would be different, but as it is the entirety of the Republican party bows now solely to Trump, making it more about loyalty to him than about any particular policies anymore. i.e. should we say that the Alt-Right is dead, killed ironically for not being extreme enough for some of its most outspoken members, and now Republican party = Trump? JD Vance certainly is showing how that works, having once decried Trump but that was then and this is now. Speaking of, JD Vance seems to want us to call the current movement the New Right, which if they win, basically means (as best as I can tell) that Trump will not be a President but made into an actual monarch.
As if the default Lemmy experience isn’t a massive filter bubble in itself. I doubt hardly anyone here would want to federate with Twitter and Truth Social even though that would make your feed, in fact, less of an echo chamber. Hell, a huge number of inctances don’t even federate with Hexbear, Lemmygrad or Threads.
I think it’s pretty much impossible to fully get out of filter bubbles, but the only way to really get every view on everything is to be part of everything mainstream AND everything more underground. Personally, I don’t feel the need to associate with any other social media. I think toxicity differs from being exposed to a different point of view.
Reddit has had the problem for years that if you tried to make a point that slightly differed from the hive mind’s opinion, however eloquently you would put it, everyone would just pile on with their ‘akshually’ mentality and not even be open to any other viewpoint than their own.
And that’s toxicity without even mentioning folks that would just say ‘no’ followed by hateful language.
I feel Lemmy is a far kinder, more balanced community where you can have a polite discussion about stuff. And OP is right, if a certain instance shows its users can’t behave or have such different views than your own, you can just make them go away and enjoy the rest of Lemmy.
I just hope those users don’t defederate from the rest of us so at some point they will have a more nuanced view of things.
I feel Lemmy is a far kinder, more balanced community where you can have a polite discussion about stuff.
My experience has been much closer to what you described reddit to be. Lemmy is extremely unwelcoming of differing opinions.
I have already personally defederated from the likes of hexbear.net (my prior instance had not done that) and lemmy.ml - the latter I even switched instances specifically to be able to do (although now that I’m here I’m finding it amazing what features are here that Lemmy lacks, like Categories on top of Communities).
There is a difference between a valid point of view, presented in good faith, vs… the opposite of that, masquerading itself as a merely “different POV”. In essence, while I am aware that I blocked many good people and therefore some good content, I decided that it was a good trade-off for me to be able to halt the flood of what is essentially spam sent out to the Fediverse from those instances.
I would rather see receipt of such spam be opt-in rather than have to find a way to opt-out, but it is what it is. At which point yes, according to this perspective at least, under this set of value judgements, then it is helpful that so many of the spammers congregate into one place making that process easier. At the expense of others who are now blocked as well, having done or even intended no wrong but being caught up in that war of ideologies. We live in a society though and our actions impact others, whether we like or even acknowledge that or not.
That’s my philosophy too. I like browsing all so I heavily filter with keywords and blocking. My community block list is approaching 600
100%. I don’t want to spend my free time scrolling past the political options of every single fuckhead in the world, these topics achieve nothing but pissing each other off. Block, block and block again.
I still remember the old-school crude internet saying of bygone days: “Arguing on the internet is like completing in the special Olympics; even if you win you’re still retarded”
I’m reminded of a quote that goes something like this:
I’ve been thinking about the free exchange of ideas recently and come to the conclusion that it isn’t an open market - it’s a potluck.
Everybody brings something to the table and you’re free to pick and choose the things that you want to try, but you’re not obligated to try everything. Just because Karen put a piece of shit on the table and calls it a sandwich doesn’t mean that you have to take a bite to know that it’s shit. Similarly, we are not obligated to take white supremacists and other extremists’ ideas and seriously debate their value. They’re shit and can and should be treated as such.
The beauty of a self-curated experience is that you’re free to engage with the things that you want and can ignore the things that you don’t want to deal with. The risk of people isolating themselves is simply a part of having the freedom to choose your own experiences, the same as the real world.
Personally, one of the reasons that I’m here is because I have no choice but to deal with right-wing extremism in my daily life, and I don’t want to deal with it online as well. Reading news articles? That’s fine, but I don’t want to see chuds screaming about DEI or woke or whatever in the comments.
This reminds me of Innuendo Studios’ latest offering (yes Ian Danskin is sharing some videos again!) Why Don’t You Respond To Criticism?.
Yep. See also: sea-lioning, the gish gallop, and a myriad of other tactics used by the far-right.
Also, another of my favorite quotes:
I’m not doing homework for you. I’ve known you for 30 seconds and enjoyed exactly none of them.
Self-curating my social media experience is self-care.
It doesnt necessarily mean that importent things won’t be covered. I just don’t need fox news opinion about it.
Then you should pick a reputable paper like The Guardian and read a chronological RSS feed. Articles that don’t support Lemmys preexisting point of view don’t even get posted here.
They do. I’ve seen some - heck I’ve posted some. Sort a community by Controversial and you’ll see them.
If you had said “rarely” or “mostly” rather than “don’t even” then your statement would have been correct. As it is, you are using hyperbolic claims that are easily refuted by a handful of counterexamples, thereby turning people away from listening to your POV.
The existence of “echo chambers” is debated by scientists. It really doesn’t matter who you hang around with, you’re going to disagree with people.
The echo chamber is overstated: the moderating effect of political interest and diverse media.
Tweeting from left to right: Is online political communication more than an echo chamber?
People talk about filter bubbles, but there’s a nuance here: on Lemmy, you’re not being served up whatever the platform owners think you should see from an opaque algorithm. You’re going to, by default, see cesspool content. You have to choose to block it.
Unfortunately, the owners of your instance can also choose to block something for you.
But that gets back to something similar to OP’s statement. As in, you can spin up your own instance (though a not entirely trivial process), or you have the freedom to choose an instance that matches your style [edit: and people tend to gravitate towards an instance admin policy that matches their preferences].
Some people want some content blocked - e.g. NSFW, or even NSFL. Or even better, slap a label on each content item, which rather than have to choose between the binary options of forcibly remove or allow fully, offers each person their own choice to view or not. PieFed even has a NSFL/gore/gross tag that you can set, though only for posts ATM not comments.
I find the Fediverse really friendly in regards to NSFW/NSFL content, in that it is both here but virtually never unlabeled (ONCE in the last year iirc there was a particular spam account that got through…). Politicial or extremist content not so much unfortunately, so we’re back to blocking or defederating, for those for whom consent of the reader of their messages means little to nothing.
To me Lemmy.world is just a place to login, I forget how I even got here. But I really don’t think of it as one instance vs others or care how it compares with others. The content is what matters, and if I finally understand it correctly the content is everywhere.
Hah, the world admins are desperately trying to keep the instance running, blocking shit isn’t even close to their radar.
Wait, is some content blocked on some instances and available on others? If that’s true then I still don’t understand lemmy - I thought the content was everywhere.
Some instances choose to “defederate” other instances, which means that users from one won’t be able to see or intract with content from the other. This is primarily meant to combat instances that create spam or host illegal content, but many instances use it for political purposes.
On the other hand, learning to deal with people you dislike is a useful skill. If everyone segregates themselves into opposing factions there will never be any progress.
Of course, I’ve personally blocked about 600 people…
Doesn’t this lead to potential echo chambers though. If I go and block all content I don’t like, how can I have ideas that challenge my beliefs?
Not everything has to have an opposing perspective, where’s the opposing community for knitting? Tearing?
Who cares? It’s social media, I come here for entertainment. Don’t let it form your opinions and believes. Read credible newspapers and journals from across the spectrum and go touch grass and have a civil conversation with a stranger if you want to hear ideas that challenge your beliefs.
People are downvoting you not because you are wrong, but because it really hurts when you call people out with this kind of precision. It should be common sense that the message boards full of randos shouldn’t be the foundation of one’s political worldview, but it’s also really easy to make message boards full of randos an integral part of one’s social life.
Getting your news from credible, non-social sources, is important. Being able to read an article and move on without heading to the comments is important. Having conversations with real people offline is important. But those things don’t offer the same steady drip of dopamine that social media provides.
A lot of people here are excessively online, and in desperate need of grass touching, and they don’t want to be told that directly, but they do also need to hear it.
