ID: A Sophie Labelle 4 panel comic featuring Stephie in different poses, saying:
Landlords do not provide housing.
They buy and Hold more space than they need for themselves.
Then, they create a false scarcity and profit off of it.
What they’re doing is literally the opposite of providing housing.
Alright but…there actually is a legitimate service that landlords provide. If someone does not want to own and maintain a property for a long period of time, or doesn’t have enough money or means to satisfy a lender that they will be able to repay a very large loan on that property over a long time, a rental agreement is beneficial. Grad students, visa holders, travel nurses, etc probably don’t want to purchase the property they’re temporarily staying in.
Don’t ever call what landlords do a service. They do it for profit. It’s not a service.
Where the cinnamon toast fuck do you live where a service exchanged for money is not done for a profit? Does your town have a grocery store selling goods at exactly cost?
Does your town have a grocery store selling goods at exactly cost?
No, you’re describing a co-op. Which my town does have, right across the street from the for-profit grocery store.
Landlords aren’t the exclusive source for short term housing, and don’t need to be defended in this way. Advocate for and support collective ownership via housing cooperatives. Landlording is the practice of leeching money from the working class.
Long-term stay hotels used to be a major source of short term housing. They mostly disappeared because of zoning law changes and in some cases fire code / housing code changes. There are problems with hotels / hoteliers. But, having a variety of solutions means various housing options have to compete with each-other, which is normally good for the person needing a place to stay.
I certainly think that we need to embrace more hostels and long term hotels, but we also need to remember that those are not solutions to homelessness. My goal is to direct them away from viewing housing as a commodity stock for capital first, then they can broaden their horizons with several various nonmarket solutions to providing housing.
Exactly, if renting wasn’t a thing, that means everyone unable or unwilling to buy a whole house has no other choice but to live on the street.
The middle ground should be there. It, in and of itself, is not a bad thing, quite the opposite.
I agree. I had a period where I moved very frequently and would not have wanted the headache of having any financial stake in the apartments I lived. Being able to just say I wasn’t renewing the lease and never having to think about the place again was very convenient. You also don’t appreciate how nice it is to not have to worry about maintenance until it’s your responsibility.
Land Contract (sometimes called “contract for deed”) provides all of those same benefits, from the same people, to the same people, as renting. It is a bit of a misnomer in that it applies to any real property, and not just “land”.
The difference from renting is that with the land contract:
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- The monthly price is fixed for the life of the contract;
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- After three years (in my state), the occupant begins gaining equity.
Grad students, visa holders, travel nurses, etc. might not necessarily want to purchase the property they are staying in, but they might also find themselves living in that area for longer than they expect. A land contract gives them the security of fixed housing costs and the flexibility of being able to walk away at any time and for any reason. They also allow the occupant to begin earning equity while still living in “temporary” housing, allowing them to save more for the future.
But, in our current market, renting is more lucrative to the landlord.
So how do we drive landlords to offer land contracts instead of rental agreements? We provide property tax exemptions to owner-occupants. We increase the nominal property tax rate: run it sky high. But, the owner-occupant exemption means the effective tax rate for homeowners (including land contract buyers) doesn’t actually increase. Only investors - people who own housing they don’t live in - will be paying that punitively-high tax rate.
With that sky-high tax on investment properties, today’s landlords will be incentivized to become private lenders. They will be taking the exact same financial risk on the exact same people, but now those people will be called “buyers” instead of “tenants”.
The only “renting” that will still remain is from landlords who live in one unit of a 2-4 unit property, or a roommate agreement, or short-term use like hotels and motels.
Home ownership is the single best predictor of financial prosperity in the US. Every housing contract should include some sort of provision for equity.
There is a legitimate service being provided there. It just shouldn’t be “lords” who provide it.
The problem is that the “lord” is earning tens of thousands of dollars per year for essentially no work. This makes it essentially similar to how a “lord” worked in a Feudalist system. This isn’t even capitalism where someone owns capital and uses that capital to generate profit. This is just demanding a payment for being in a place.
Since being a landlord requires essentially no work, landlords can accumulate wealth, buy more property, get even more income, buy more property, etc. More wealth / property means more political power. The main thing that political power will be used for is to gain and retain more wealth, which is equivalent to more power.
Imagine how different would be if nobody could ever rent out more than one property, especially combined with a vacant units tax. You’d still have “landlords” but they would be much less lord-like.
Sure, how many people do you think you’d walk up to who are renting who would say that that’s their situation?
Why are you talking about the exception not explicitly the problem that this is supposed to be trying to address?
The issues are people who want to purchase cannot while people have more than one.
Are you saying we prioritize those renters over homeowners? Is that better for the economy of the country to have people who are renting as opposed to people who own?
Edit: also how does this work if a country cares about their citizens and absolutely any of their citizens are homeless while someone has extra and empty housing?
I rent my house to military who don’t want to buy because they’ll leave in 2-3 years
And my dear grandma rents her old flat to a single mum and her kids, who’s down on her luck, for so little that she’s practically paying them to live there, until she can find a place to buy. My grandma hasn’t been able to stay there since pops past away while saving a bunch of babies from a fire.
Therefore, landlordism is justified.
I don’t really want to pay for a house and experience all the expenses that come with it. Owning a house involves paying out of pocket for maintenance whereas when renting, you can have the landlord take care of that for you, and it doesn’t involve paying whoever comes to fix your stuff.
Additionally, owning a house would basically anchor me to one location, which gives me less flexibility as a digital nomad.
If you value home equity then buying a house is definitely ideal. But this isn’t the case for everyone.
…oh, sorry. I forgot this is Lemmy and that you can’t have a different opinion under any circumstance. My bad!
Correct, how dare you! Landlord bad! They want something in return for providing something, how dare they!
Yes, landlord bad for invariably doing a low quality repair job repeatedly, the money they make off multi tenant units is way more than they pay for a lowest bidder service call.
That’s some low quality thinking, @Eheran@lemmy.world
You don’t need landlords for non-ownership and temporary housing solutions to exist.
The problem isn’t Lemmy, the problem is your insistence on remaining under a boot, and clear unwillingness to explore options beyond your existing and narrow (E: and indoctrinated by capitalism) view of the world.
For what its worth, they are not speaking on the same subject as you and I doubt they have even thought about material relationships in the same way you have. They just see buying vs renting and the practicalities of each, but not the implications on the relationship between renter and owner.
I doubt they see themselves as under a boot (I mean, I know I didn’t think that when I started renting) or that they are indoctrinated by capital. We all gotta start learning this shit somewhere. I mean I get it: Once you realize that the rat race is bullshit, it’s easy to get upset at others who are still running as if it is legitimate. But most of us were running at one point. When you lead people out, it’s gotta come from a softer place than “you are indoctrinated and live under a boot.”
or that they are indoctrinated by capital.
We all are, and that you think some people aren’t is something you should really consider with yourself.
And while I can agree with the first part, you’ve really got to check your privilege on the second.
I have all the time in the world for people who actually want to learn and know more, this person doesn’t strike me as being there, and I currently have better things to do with my time and emotional labour than spoon feed them information they’re not interested in hearing. I have no issue being blunt with people who need a slap in the face from reality.
If you have the free time and energy to bang your head against a brick wall, you be my guest, but you don’t get to decide how I spend mine.
You’re not wrong, you’re just not participating in the same conversation.
Like if someone says “Hey, Disney World is an abusive and corrupt enterprise” and you reply “But I like going to Disney World and I don’t want to close it down”.
There should be a way to address the problems without abolishing the whole thing.
But if we can’t even admit the problems because we’re afraid of where it will lead, we’re never going to improve anything.
You’re right. I suppose I should just read into it more. I was just frustrated that I’ve been seeing these frequently on my homepage and felt like I had to comment
I can understand that.
There are very real problems with the rental situation in the US, even for people who prefer renting, but the news seems to only talk about the frustration of home-buyers-in-waiting constantly getting scooped by corporate investors.
There’s significant overlap in these problems, of course, but it’s not fair or productive to paint all renters as “failed home-buyers”, even if it seems like it should bolster the movement by inflating the numbers.
Owning a house involves paying out of pocket for maintenance whereas when renting, you can have the landlord take care of that for you
Your rent is quite literally paying for the maintenance. You think landlords are just losing money on maintenance out of the good of their own hearts? Of course not, it’s just all bundled up and averaged out into one price with your rent.
owning a house would basically anchor me to one location, which gives me less flexibility as a digital nomad.
Cool, that’s one of many benefits of housing cooperatives. They can act similarly to a landlord in terms of you sharing the cost of repairs with the whole building, which reduces risk, and they don’t have a profit motive, since they’re non-profits, so rent is lower than with a landlord. Some even let your rent buy you equity in your unit, which you can then sell later to get some of your money back if you decide to move, much better than the for-profit landlord that will give you nothing. The only issue is, these cooperatives are repeatedly outbid by corporate landlords, which means there’s far fewer of them than would be ideal.
Additionally, I’ve seen some startups like Cohere that seem like they’ll eventually be able to give you even more flexibility, allowing you to move between units in various locations without having to sell the old one or file annoying paperwork to start a new lease, with at least somewhat cooperative ownership. (although, of course, this is a for profit company, which isn’t as ideal)
I can definitely understand wanting flexibility, but there are ways to get that which don’t involve overpaying to a for-profit landlord. I can understand not caring much about equity, but of course, that’s why non-ownership housing cooperatives exist.
But to actually make those things more widely available, you need to reduce the market power held by for-profit landlords. If they did not exist, these alternatives, primarily the cooperatives, could fill back in the gaps, but provide lower prices, better service, actual equity for those who want it, and still keep the flexibility you get from renting.
Owning a house involves paying out of pocket for maintenance whereas when renting, you can have the landlord take care of that for you, and it doesn’t involve paying whoever comes to fix your stuff.
Those costs are almost certainly built into your rent. It’s not free. You also risk the landlord just not fixing things.
If the landlord doesn’t fix things you stop paying rent. At least in countries with strong regulations (Mietminderung in Germany).
They’ll probably start eviction proceedings if you stop paying rent. They may also do other unpleasant things to make the apartment unlivable.
In the US the law is generally not cheap and not on the side of the poor.
Really depends, either insurance fully covers it, or the resident is at fault in most jurisdictions. The landlord would only cover it if they had no current renter and they had terrible insurance. Pipes freezing is an entirely predictable and easily preventable thing outside an act of God.
True, although likely spread over a longer period of time and over multiple tenants. You’re not paying for the new roof after just renting a couple of years for example.
Where I live, the break-even point is about 3 years last I checked where it’s cheaper to rent assuming you could buy if you wanted to (realtor fees are a part of this since they essentially run a cartel, speaking of parasites…). That’s assuming no major maintenance needed otherwise that changes the math.
It’s okay that you don’t want to own a house. Those are legitimate practical concerns that you bring up. Certainly renting comes with some conveniences, like being able to move, not having to worry about utilities, repairs etc. (although, if you have a bad landlord, you may still have to worry about that stuff)
But at the end of the day, you are still paying for someone else’s ownership of an asset and thereby increasing their wealth at the expense of your own. They are leveraging your need for shelter to increase their own personal wealth. It’s not about the pros and cons of renting vs buying. It’s about the inherently unequal material relationship between you and your landlord.
If there are alternate options for renting a place, then I’m open to hear it. As of now, though, simply walking up to someone and asking to rent their place seems like the easier and more straightforward option.
I am only speaking from experience here. I understand the situation varies from person to person. I’m not personally concerned with my own wealth. I have found apartments with comfortable monthly rent, and I have found places that don’t seem to have a fair rent that I’ve quickly moved out of. I can afford groceries and save a bit for some personal expenses. So far, I have had no negative experiences with any landlord I’ve rented from despite the rent pricing.
If it’s the idea of landlords owning places and offering them for rent that people here are bothered about, then I’m not sure I understand their perspective. I respect it nonetheless, but I suppose I am just not as frustrated as most people are with the situation
Yeah, we’re speaking on different terms here. I have also had a good overall experience renting, but that doesn’t really have anything to do with crux of the issue, which is that landlords exploit a renter’s need for shelter at their own personal gain. We rationalize this by claiming things like “well, the landlord offers a service,” but not really, because for the most part the landlord does not need to do any work, they just need to invest money, which in turn increases the value of their property, anyways. Everything they do increases their own personal wealth. That’s not to mention the concentration of wealth and power that landlords perpetuate.
This isn’t to say all landlords are bad people. We are all taught to make our money work for us, to try to achieve passive income, etc. in order to get out of the rat race. That doesn’t change the fact that the relationships that landlords and renting creates are inherently unequal and therefore wrong.
If there are alternate options for renting a place, then I’m open to hear it.
Public housing. Well funded, well run, public housing. Rip out the profit motive.
You probably have to remove all the conservatives from power first because they ideologically do not want a government that does good things.
Also probably repeal faircloth, which arbitrarily limits how much public housing there can be.
If the landlords do not provide a service, you’re welcome to go to the bank to approve your loan, buy or build a house, maintain it, pay back the loan and deal with delinquent renters and sell it when it’s time for you to move out. None of which concerns you as a renter.
It is a massive PITA and it’s a so-so store of value at best. That there are assholes who charge you through the nose for the rent doesn’t mean it’s a landlord problem. It’s an asshole problem.
Bull-fucking-shit.
20 years ago, houses in my neighborhood were selling for around $50k. Those same houses today hold a current market value of over $800k.
For comparison, the value of the USD has lost roughly 40% in value over the last 20 years, meaning if the houses in my neighborhood were only a “so-so store of value” (tracking inflation) they would be worth roughly $80k today, 10x less than the current market value.
For another comparison, if you put $50k into an index fund that tracked the S&P500 20 years ago, it would be worth roughly $350k today. That’s not even half of the return houses in my neighborhood are getting over the same time period.
Sure it costs a lot of money to maintain a house and pay taxes and insurance over that 20 years and that’s going to eat into those returns. But I can guarantee you I’m paying more than that to rent a similarly-sized property, which you would be doing anyway if you didn’t have the capital to own a home.
You’re sure living in a real estate bubble. Not going to last, thankfully.
A lot of people will probably doubt this when living in the middle of the bubble. But it has happened elsewhere already. China’s RE bubble has melted down spectacularly and their economy is still deflating despite massive government stimulus. I imagine this will be the fate of the American Everything Bubble too, albeit we can’t know when it will happen. The last deflationary episode around 2014 coincided with the meltdown in the American shale oil industry, which as we well know is going to happen again with the decline of the Permian - maybe this will start the bubble bursting.
Nobody tell this dude about co-ops, market rate housing, non profits, etc.
What is stopping renters to use these then, and give a middle finger to the landlords?
The real estate cartel, the landlords themselves are stopping this. If housing is treated as a human right, their profit evaporates, so they’ll never willingly let that happen. They intentionally make zoning harder, kill government initiatives to make housing cheaper, etc.
It’s like asking a dictator to install democracy. Nothing short of a leftist takeover of the DNC, coupled with large scale local level cooperation, tenant unions, etc will solve this.
it’s a so-so store of value at best.
For that to be true you need to be living in a place where price/rent has not doubled or even quadrupled in the past 10 years.
This is maybe true for landlording corpos.
In general though? Sorry, fuck you guys. When I can buy and rent an extra house or two for passive income, bet your titties I’m doing it and I’m not going to feel bad about it.
It’s not that passive. If you want passive income get an ETF. We are selling our old apartment because of all the hassle of renting.
I guess what I really eventually want is an accessible vacation house near some water and a reasonable way to offset the cost without just letting it sit empty half a year at a time. Living in a college town now, it seems like the short term rental demographic might be a decent choice depending what and where you pick.
