Yay a spoiler candidate
How is she a spoiler? She’s the only major leftist candidate, who is she pulling from?
In America you either one of the 2 main or a spoiler. Y’all really need ranked voting.
Can’t get ranked choice voting with either establishment party, and I don’t consider the only major leftist candidate to be a spoiler for 2 right parties.
Alternative voting systems haven’t proven to be even the slightest obstacle to capitalist rule. Japan and Australia have alternative voting systems, and they’re still on the same far right path, still evict indigenous peoples, and still act as US military bases.
The Democrats. In a 2 party system, voting for a 3rd party makes it more likely that the guy you REALLY don’t want to be elected, gets elected.
Leftists REALLY don’t want Democrats either. If you are in a room where the water is rising to 10 feet above you, and the Republicans build a 2 foot platform from the bottom and the Dems build a 3 foot platform, you still die either way.
Agree with the philosophy, but stupid that she’s running for president. Until/unless we change FPTP voting the only the Democrat and Republican running even matter and if you don’t explicitly vote for the one then your are implicitly voting for the other.
RCV is starting to get some traction in places. What we have to do is continue supporting that and not let the detractors shit on it.
It’s also been outlawed in certain states. Many of those same states have outlawed voter led initiatives, meaning they have no recourse to change to rcv without changing the majority of their states legislators with people that support it and will pass it. You’re talking over a lifetime of change necessary to undo that damage. That still is hoping that dems will actually vote against their own best interests once in majority control…
Even if it passes, i wouldn’t be very hopeful. Look at Europe, all those countries have better and more democratic election system than USA, but there are fascists on the rise in each of them and shit like in France and Poland happen more and more. Also what’s the use of having more parties if they still all represent the same influence groups (for example in Poland we currently have 17 parties and 42 independents on 460 seats in sejm, but you won’t find anyone outside of neoliberal status quo).
I don’t begrudge her campaign. Making noise on the national level is a good way to elevate the message and slowly undo the demonization of socialism. It’s her supporters acting like Harris is the same as Trump that chap my ass.
The problem with that is “the media” treats anyone other than D, R, and occasionally Jill Stein as non existent. She isn’t making noise on the national level because that requires the media to “amplify” you and all we hear from them about her right now is
I didn’t forget to finish the sentence.
@Asafum @themeatbridge I think they do that as they might as well be non-existant considering the current winner take all method of assigning Electoral College votes in over forty states. Frankly, you might as well not bother to vote if’n you’re going to vote third party. Frankly I won’t take any third party seriously until they start caring about down ballot elections where they can make a difference, show people why they should be elected, and change the laws that keep them from being elected.
Lenin argued that communists should take part in bourgeois elections because this will get them tribune to loudly proclaim their program, though this should be the least they do, not the most and the main effort should be outside of electorial politics and on organising working class.
Now thing is, when Lenin wrote this, he meant the tsarist duma, which was even fakier democracy than the current American one, with 3 tiers of electors, censuses, workers and peasants barely getting few % of representation and rest going to landowners and their pets, okhrana secret police arresting socialists and peasant activists and closing their newspapers (there was a case where huge participation of workers put iirc 15 worker representatives in duma, and tsar just fucking imprisoned them). But they were still heard.
Now, nearly 120 years later, bourgeosie don’t even have to be so heavy handed, they just drown the communist message in a media flood, and even cases like removing third party candidate from ballot and deplatforming them cause no big response from the so called “liberty” advocates.
Consider it from the point of view of the millions of under educated working poor.
they live in a state of precarity and they are being told trump is bad apparently because of ‘project 2025’ or some other nebulous concept.
Thats not gonna land with them. They don’t have the luxury of considering the dangers of “dismantling the administration “ under trump. They need to pay the rent and buy groceries and care for their sick, before they can weigh the relative morality of the candidates.
They wake up, they see rich people getting richer and their life getting harder 24/7/365 and they see no one doing anything about it .
This is why the Dems never get it .
Working people are too hard up to worry about a power struggle between the super rich and the ultra wealthy.
Respectfully, Trump didn’t just appear this year. There are endless CONCRETE examples of his garbage character and policy ideas. Plenty of people in precarious situations are not so stupid as to somehow believe that Trump is only a danger recently because of project 2025. You would literally have to have just regained consciousness from a 10 year coma to not have been exposed to his shittiness at this point. Anyone who supports him or is undecided about him is wholly ignorant of reality.
I mean aren’t these also the people who say free healthcare is communism and less taxes for corporations and lower minimal wage is better because then companies can employ more people
I’m certain the dems and Republicans will vote to end their strangle hold on us politics in just 1 more election cycle!!! Our maybe the next… or maybe the next…
Why?
Other countries with FPTP have fringe candidates that almost definitely won’t win elections, but influence politics considerably.
Arguably, Nigel Farage is the most influential politician in the last decade of the UK for his role in pushing Brexit, all while being in no less than three different political parties. He only recently won election as a MP on his seventh attempt, but media backing and taking disenfranchised votes from idiots basically allowed him to dictate internal policy for both main parties.
There are 650 MPs in the UK, and unlike ind the US it isn’t winner-takes-all; if you win one of the 650 seats you get to be an MP
In the US presidential election, there are 50 states for a bigger population and even then winning one while losing the others achieves nothing
In the senate and house elections, which are more analogous to the UK, independent candidates are viable, right? There’s at least a few. But it’s not comparable to the Presidential elections
FPTP is fucked, but it’s only one element of why the USA is deadlocked into the two major parties being the only contenders. The electoral college, the winner-takes-all nature… all sorts
That’s all well and good, but it doesn’t answer the primary point. An unelected politician was able to drive change without even being elected as an MP because he had public and media support. Tell me why that isn’t possible in the United States, even if it means as a fringe candidate in a primary party?
Every time someone says the phrase ‘spoiler candidate’ I sabatoge another mail ballot. Eat shit lesser evilists, your voting pattern is why the current election has gone from a lesser of two evils to the lesser of two genocides. Whats the next election going to be, the lesser of two nuclear wars? Y’all hate democracy but you lack the balls to say it, so you attack anyone who uses their democracy in ways other than you. You’re the reason for this electoral situation and yet you insist only your way will get us out? Spare me the jokes, it’s like trying to dig upward.
No, it’s just a fundamental, inescapable fact of your voting system that voting for a candidate that won’t win, instead of voting for the candidate who might win and you’d prefer over the other most likely candidate, is a vote for the candidate you’d prefer less.
Please look up the spoiler effect earnestly (cgpgrey has a passable video on the topic). It’s not the voters fault they’re forced into voting for candidates that aren’t their favourite, it’s the voting system’s fault.
Edit for your convenience: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3Y3jE3B8HsE
As a citizen of one of the US’s vassal states, I can’t vote, but this shit affects us all, as the US is the world overlord. A trump presidency would be devastating, in my point of view.
Please fucking vote for the Dems if you’d prefer them over the Republicans. Please learn how your terrible system actually works. This vassal begs you.
Oh and campaign to improve the voting system so you can actually vote for the candidates you like best.
No, it’s just a fundamental, inescapable fact of your voting system that voting for a candidate that won’t win, instead of voting for the candidate who might win and you’d prefer over the other most likely candidate, is a vote for the candidate you’d prefer less.
Neither the Democrats nor Republicans are acceptable.
Please look up the spoiler effect earnestly (cgpgrey has a passable video on the topic). It’s not the voters fault they’re forced into voting for candidates that aren’t their favourite, it’s the voting system’s fault.
Correct, the system will never change without revolution.
As a citizen of one of the US’s vassal states, I can’t vote, but this shit affects us all, as the US is the world overlord. A trump presidency would be devastating, in my point of view
So would a Harris presidency.
Please fucking vote for the Dems if you’d prefer them over the Republicans. Please learn how your terrible system actually works. This vassal begs you.
Neither major party is acceptable. You don’t fix a bleeding wound by adding another.
Oh and campaign to improve the voting system so you can actually vote for the candidates you like best.
Will never work, because the Capitalist system maintains itself and will not allow its power to be wrested electorally.
that’s my president(ial candidate) :)
When, I think of “socialism,” I think of modern day Scandinavian health care, not Soviet-era Russia. Who do these pants -wetting idiots think they’re scaring?
Ah yes scandinavian healthcare where I can’t get my doctor to give a fuck about my back pain because people under 30 don’t have back pain obviously
There will always be some incompetent people in every profession. I’m sorry your doctor is one of them
It’s an systemic problem in Denmark. I don’t know anyone in my area whos happy with their doctor
Who do these pants -wetting idiots think they’re scaring?
The boomers who grew up during the Cold War and who continue to have better voter turnout rates than Millennials, even as the latter generation sneaks up on their 40s.
Like…I don’t agree with their policies, but their tactics are objectively effective.
This isn’t an endorsement of conservative fear mongering but rather calling out my fellow Millennials, who’ve recently surpassed boomers as the most populous generation in the US.
Show up and vote, god dammit.
who continue to have better voter turnout rates than Millennials
One of the biggest determining factors of enfranchisement is home ownership. Boomers got to plunder the real estate that prior generations had extracted from the First Nations. That land was commoditized and collateralized such that subsequent generations had to pay an enormous premium to get access to it.
Subsequently, home ownership rates after the Boomer generation plunged. More and more property is monopolized by business conglomerates and simply rented out rather than sold. People move more often, chasing lower housing costs and higher wages. So they never develop a local identity, join a local political party, or invest in the long term interest of the community where they reside.
They don’t know who their politicians are or why they should vote for any of them. So they don’t participate. And then they leave an area rather than fight to defend it if the political leadership starts fucking the place up, because they don’t own any of that land anyway.
Show up and vote, god dammit.
The Boomers vote with their ballots.
The Zoomers vote with their feet.
It’s just American corporate FUD. Either you’re a complete balls-out capitalist, or you’re an ultra-commie. Nothing inbetween. Mention the EU and they stick their fingers in their ears and yell
Some more about why the Nordic model isn’t socialism:
When, I think of “socialism,” I think of modern day Scandinavian health care, not Soviet-era Russia.
One of the upshots of the Great Patriotic War producing so many invalids and disabled veterans was a Soviet state dedicated to providing top quality public services for its veterans. An entire municipality - Rusinovo - was built to cater to the blind, in order to accommodate the number of Soviets who had lost their sight to chemical weapons and other injuries. It became a model for a host of disability-friendly improvements to cities the world over, and you can still find them if you know where to look. The Tokyo subway adopted the Rusinovo model for raised, guided pathways, for instance. And audible signals at crosswalks and in city metros are common mass transit features globally.
After the fall of the USSR, much of the country was privatized and subsequently looted by the Yeltsin-friendly oligarchs who endorsed the coup against Gorbachev. Rusinovo was one such target for looting. The school for the blind was defunded. Factories specifically geared to allow blind workers to participate in the manufacturing center were shuttered and stripped for parts. The transit network was gutted.
Who do these pants -wetting idiots think they’re scaring?
Post-Soviet Eastern Europe is regularly held up as the consequence of Soviet Economics taken to their logical conclusion. So you’ll routinely see Western politicians point to states like Estonia or Solvakia or the shattered remnants of the Yugoslavian Republic as proof of the Failed Socialist Experiment.
What you don’t typically hear is the rapid deterioration that occurred after the USSR was dismantled and partitioned off under Yeltsin. Or how much of the Soviet Era wealth was stolen by mafiosos and corrupt agents operating on behalf of western business interests and rival espionage agencies nce the Iron Curtain was torn down.
In some sense, its a lie. “Look at how awful it is now! That’s because of the socialism they did back then.”
In some sense, its a threat. “Try socialism again, and you’re next.”
