The community c/libertyhub@lemmy.blahaj.zone states in the sidebar it’s a community for leftists and post leftists, but if you actually look at the posts the mods are making, it’s almost nothing but trolling and telling people not to vote in the general election.
This rhetoric is especially dangerous to trans people, who this instance is supposed to be a safe space for, and West Bank Palestinians. If the USA elects a fascist president, there is guaranteed to be multiple genocides of society’s most vulnerable groups, in addition to what the US is already doing in Gaza.
The mods on Liberty Hub openly troll their users and ban people for advocating left wing or harm reducing positions. The only action that is allowed on the sub is advocating political inaction in the face of genocide, taking a centrist position with regards to open fascism.
This community has absolutely no place on Blahaj Zone and should be removed by the admins.
I’m not going to remove a community for pushing back against a system that forces them to vote for genocide.
I don’t think that not voting is the answer, but I also don’t think that me telling people they’re not allowed to feel differently is the answer. The majority of the people in that community will be forced to live with the consequences of their votes. They will be directly targeted by Trump. And if they still feel that pushing back against genocide in Palestine is more important than the consequences of Trump on their very own personal safety, I’m not going to stand in the way of that.
This isn’t outside trolls and agitators. This is a community of folk, directly in the line of fire, choosing to stand there for a cause they see as important. As long as their intentions are genuine (which I believe they are), It’s not my place to tell them that they’re not allowed to take that stand.
That being said, I am going to reach out to the staff there, and address the insults and the like being thrown at other users. It’s against both the community rules, and against the Blahaj Zone Community Guidelines.
There’s a difference between taking a stand that will harm themselves, and taking a stand that will harm everyone else as well while preventing others from taking a stand against them.
Pledging to vote for someone despite the genocide means they have no incentive to stop the genocide. That is the more dangerous stance.
Ballots are secret. There is no way to prove how you voted once the ballot is sumbmitted. The optimal play is to make a lot of noise saying that your vote is contingent on an end to the genocide, even if that isn’t how you actually vote on election day.
Pledging to vote for biden at this point is encouragement. Why would he do anything about palestine if he knows you’re going to vote for him anyway?
You might be clever enough to walk that fine line, but the average voter is not. They hear “don’t vote for Biden” and they believe you. Expecting to trick the president and not trick the millions of other people who need to vote against fascism for fascism not to happen, is impossible.
You’re playing chicken with fascism. You’re spreading fascist propaganda to voters while the DNC threatens the same and hoping the other one blinks first. But you and I have a lot more to lose from fascism than those rich white people do, and they’re not going to blink. Your threats of fascism are going to come true.
Pledging to vote for someone despite the genocide means they have no incentive to stop the genocide. That is the more dangerous stance.
Bullshit, it’s the least dangerous stance!
- You can vote for Biden and have him fail to stop the genocide
- You can vote for Trump and have him enthusiastically support and egg on the genocide
- You can vote third-party and have Trump enthusiastically support and egg on the genocide
Those are your choices. Pretending that there’s some choice other than voting for Biden that causes less harm is a DELUSIONAL LIE, end of!
Assume people make rational choices. When a president is elected, especially for a 2nd term, then they have little to no incentive to actually listen to the voters. It fucking sucks, but that is how the system works. Election time is literally the only time we can push meaningful change.
When election day comes, I think people we rationally understand that Trump is a greater danger both to Palastine and to the trans community and vote accordingly.
If I agree that there is no value in not voting, then I feel you should be able to recognize that there is value in SAYING you are not voting. To me, it’s far more likely that the people in that community know this fact instead of somehow not recognizing the danger of Trump.
Assume people make rational choices.
Why? I don’t think people have earned that much faith. People elected Trump in 2016 and I think they might well do it again.
I fail to see how that community is pushing back against any system by repeating the same tired talking points that dissuade people from voting.
And that’s s perfectly reasonable perspective. But it’s not a reason to moderate or ban the community…
Quickly going through the modlog of that community I’ve found these three comments that were removed for no other reason than they didn’t align with what some mod thinks, along with a lot of people who were banned with the reason “liberal”.
I don’t even agree with these comments, but that doesn’t matter. You’re willing to host that community to give them a voice, while the mods stifle dissent and ban anyone who disagrees.
Have you tried blocking the community instead of interacting with it? There’s plenty of communities I block because I think they’re dumb and annoying, or because the moderation team is a train wreck.
“It’s transphobic to think Joe Biden is a genocide enabling asshole because that means you support not voting for him which means you support Trump getting elected which means you support transphobic policies and this should be banned from Blahaj” is a series of assumptions built on assumptions, most of which are bad faith and work backwards from wanting the community banned. Demanding a trans admin ban them for transphobia when what you want them banned for is bad politics is tasteless at best, and comes off as manipulative.
Before anyone gets a bug up their ass about if I vote blue enough, I live in a large city in California. We are more likely to see the sun explode than for my elector to vote for anyone other than a Democrat, which I think is ultimately the least bad option that is likely to happen between now and November (but is still a bad system because we need ranked choice).
Man, why didn’t I think of preventing political propaganda from reaching people by ignoring it. What a good idea!
Memes from someone whose takes you don’t like isn’t the same thing as propaganda and it certainly doesn’t make the community transphobic. If you can’t live with seeing it, block it. There is real, honest to god, paid for with billionaire cash political propaganda targeting trans people out there, and that community ain’t it.
propaganda noun
1 : a congregation of the Roman curia having jurisdiction over missionary territories and related institutions 2: the spreading of ideas, information, or rumor for the purpose of helping or injuring an institution, a cause, or a person 3: ideas, facts, or allegations spread deliberately to further one’s cause or to damage an opposing cause also : a public action having such an effect
Idead spread for the purpose of furthering a cause. I think Liberty Hub’s anti-voting posts meet both definition 2 and definition 3. (Merriam Webster)
Counterpoint - these communities are a big part of a concerted right wing effort to divide the left by pushing an extremely insular and extremist version of left wing self parody. A lot of well meaning people buy into it initially and then don’t have the moral courage to step away from it when they are shown its extremist side. That’s why it is not very effective and very dangerous.
Blocking communities and users only makes bad actors more powerful because there are fewer voices pushing back against them. It’s the internet version of sticking your head in the sand because you don’t have the courage to confront evil.
Someone isn’t evil because they think Joe Biden is enabling genocide and that he sucks, Jesus. Y’all need to learn to be okay with other queer people not having your exact politics. Aim that kind of rhetoric and energy at people that are actually bigoted instead of just tearing down other queer people.
After going on over for a look around I agree with you.
Not voting is horrendously dangerous for the most vulnerable groups especially in this upcoming election.
I’ve been in that community pushing to reluctantly vote for Biden and I haven’t been banned! In fact, I don’t see a ton of “don’t vote for Biden” stuff, mostly just “Biden sucks” stuff. Perhaps you’re dividing things into sides to aggressively.
I agree they’re a little trolly and definitely inflame, which I don’t like, but calling it transphobic requires quite the leap of logic.
Here’s a post where that mod actually advocates voting for Biden. He also hates Biden and levies plenty of valid criticisms. These are not mutually exclusive.
Tbh I think the guy drank the flavor aid. I saw how that dude started out and iirc he started with more reasonable political stances; but he’s gone way off the rails. If he’s who I think he is, then I feel kinda feel bad for him. He wasn’t always like this.
I’d had a few conversations with them before they came to blahaj, and I agree that I feel bad seeing how it’s gone since then. I miss their attitude from earlier, in that sort of “I hope my friend is okay but I’m worried we no longer have a relationship where I can help” kind of vibe
