Yup. I argued to a Russian troll before that the “similar culture” is not good reason to violate national sovereignty. Like, UK could not forcefully retake New York simply because New York once belonged to the UK and both speak English. The troll responded that if the people want to join another richer country, then just let that happen. Which is a farcical argument, even for a Russian soaked in Putin’s propaganda, that the US is ten times richer than the UK, and of course New York would wish to remain with the former, if economy is the arbitrator on where one should side with. It did not also occur to the troll that he/she should apply the same logic to Ukraine as to why they want to align with the EU/West. Because the West the way richer and even ordinary Russians know it.
Sorry Vlady, the West could afford a bigger wedding ring.
I don’t think you understood their argument.
The people in Donbas have spoken Russian and been considered an ethnic minority in Ukraine since the USSR broke up. The people of Donbas started a civil war in response to government discrimination against their minority. If the people of Donbas are through with being a part of Ukraine, then they absolutely should have the right to secede and either be independent or join with Russia.
Unfortunately we don’t live in a world where any minority group has the sovereignty to actually make that decision fairly and democratically, which is why instead of having a vote they had eight years of war followed by being annexed and two more years and counting of much more intense warfare.
I have said this before, the issue of political and economic alignment among Ukrainians, and the separatist conflict on Eastern Ukraine is an internal one. And there is no evidence of persecution of Russia-speakers. Much of the separatist sentiment had been stoked, more than likely by Kremlin. And Zelensky is a Russian-speaking Ukrainian Jew; meanwhile the Ukrainian defense chief, Oleksandr Syrsky, is a Russian himself who have come to call Ukraine his home. Therefore, it doesn’t make sense to accuse Ukraine as Nazis or Russophobe.
With all that said, the supposed systemic persecution of Russian-speakers is made up, and the divide between Russian and Ukrainian-speakers on whether to align with the West or Russia is internal issue that does not justify invading another sovereign country. I always make the analogy that it is like the Republic of Ireland invading Northern Ireland, which the latter is legally part of UK, after making the justification to defend Catholics (and the Irish government did draw up a plan for an invasion but they did not go ahead because they know it’s illegal). Or Turkey invading the entirety of Cyprus after already occupying the northern part. Invading another country which everyone knows are flimsy pretexts is illegal.
And america has no racism because we had a black president. Your logic sounds pretty but falls apart once you start trying replacement variables.
I vaguely recall a certain whisky-producing region having some sort of referendum at one point. Must have dreamt it, sorry.
The South is not allowed to secede.
Nor is Scotland, if that’s what you’re referring to.
The Whiskey Rebellion was a response to taxation that unfairly targeted the rural poor. George Washington crushed it.
Is it possible to make any argument for Russia’s economy?
Arguably ‘russia’s economy’ is a word combination without obvious linguistic problems
Only if you’re a landlocked Central Asian country with no other avenues for more trading opportunities with the wider world.
Even then, it seems smarter to go with China or India since those countries will actually consume the raw materials being produced by these countries.
The economic and political infrastructures between Russia and Central Asian states are already well established thanks to history, which makes both parties still rely on each other. But the connection between Central Asia and China and India is not well established, which makes more immediate realignment difficult for Central Asians. The Belt and Road Initiative is still in its infancy in Central Asia. But even then, many analysts say the BRI infrastructures in Central Asia has not been profitable for China. Many say the real purpose of BRI in Asia is to provide back up trading route for China, if South China Sea ever becomes a war zone too dangerous for shipment towards the country.
Because nato and the UN are the first sign internationally cooperation, but people want to shit on it because they don’t have a good argument of why the structure doesn’t work, so instead of creating a good argument about the current structure, they just shit on it and say “NATO BAD”.
There is a reason why it is obvious to some people why NATO and the UN are bad and not to others. There are obvious good reasons to hate those organizations if you are the kind of person or nation who wants to do horrible things to other people or nations for your own benefit.
I’m not saying any of those people are wrong or right. What I’m saying is is people put forth the energy to criticize those organizations and countries involved without coming up with solutions to improve said organizations. Instead people just say that those orgs are evil or bad. Both organizations are international coops, so how is that a bad thing? It shows a great chance, but instead of trying to find solutions, they want to chastise it.
So with that being said, what would be your solution to improve NATO and the UN?
Both organizations are international coops, so how is that a bad thing?
What I am saying is that that is a bad thing if you are the bully everyone else is cooperating to protect themselves from.
Legit multipolarization?
NATO, in particular, is highly coupled to the American/anti-Russian agenda. How much chance did Europe get to discuss the pros and cons of bankrolling a long-term conflict in Ukraine vs getting railroaded into it with the insinuations of being the next Chamberlain?
Even Xi Jinping and Vladimir Putin don’t wake up every morning asking “how can I be evil today?” They may have a different agenda than the West, but it still comes from a place of caring for their country, legacy, and position. These are not wholesale foreign concepts. They can be understood and worked with. But I suspect the sort of organizations that would get the best out of them would require certain countries to acknowledge their place among equals and be willing to comptomise their sphere of influence.
the defenestration is incredibly relevant.
China (but not Russia) does make arguments as to why their political and economic systems are superior pretty regularly
