China has positioned itself as the main car supplier in Mexico, with exports reaching $4.6 billion in 2023, according to data from Mexico’s Secretariat of Economy.
The Chinese automaker BYD surpassed Honda and Nissan to position itself as the seventh largest automaker in the world by number of units sold during the April to June quarter. This growth was driven by increased demand for its affordable electric vehicles, according to data from automakers and research firm MarkLines.
The company’s new vehicle sales rose 40 percent year over year to 980,000 units in the quarter—the same quarter wherein most major automakers, including Toyota and Volkswagen, experienced a decline in sales. Much of BYD’s growth is attributed to its overseas sales, which nearly tripled in the past year to 105,000 units. Now BYD is considering locating its new auto plant in three Mexican states: Durango, Jalisco, and Nuevo Leon.
Foreign investment would be an economic boost for Mexico. The company has claimed that a plant there would create about 10,000 jobs. A Tesla competitor, BYD markets its Dolphin Mini model in Mexico for about 398,800 pesos—about $21,300 dollars—a little more than half the price of the cheapest Tesla model.
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That tariff-free access is part of the US-Mexico-Canada Agreement (T-MEC), an updated version of the North American Free Trade Agreement that, as of 2018, eliminated tariffs on many products traded between the North American countries. Under the treaty, if a foreign automotive company that manufactures vehicles in Canada or Mexico can demonstrate that the materials used are locally sourced, its products can be exported to the United States virtually duty-free.
MAGA strikes again
Other automakers should try producing $21,000 LiFePO4 EV hatchbacks with a 250 mile range instead of cranking out $50,000 EVs with a bunch of ADAS crap that most people don’t care about.
This right here… The fact that Xpeng can produce and sell the MONA for $17k should be a wakeup call to US companies. Even just a simple EV without all the bells would be amazing… We don’t want perfect we just want drivable. Legacy needs to focus on overall efficiency in addition so they can squeeze the most range out of smaller battery packs.
The main problem with BYD cars is that they are heavily subsidizing by the Chinese government.
If you remove those subsidies then those cars aren’t going to be very competitive. But the problem would be that by the time the Chinese government stopped subsidies, there wouldn’t be any competition left.
Our best ways to counteract this would either be through heavy tariffs or by subsidizing our own companies in the west.
MAGA wants to do the tariffs route which is basically a bandaid solution that would prevent the Chinese companies from owning the US market but it wouldn’t do anything outside of that. Plus it doesn’t solve is being competitive, it’s just covering its ears and “lalala”’ing the issue for later generations to deal with it. Which honestly, that tracks for basically their whole platform.
If you do the subsidies route though, we’d have to make sure we’re not just constantly lining Musk’s pockets but Tesla is the company has the biggest head start. And Musk is a PoS but the devil’s credit is that our EV market wouldn’t exist without Tesla.
IMO, we need to diversify our EV makers and help provide the capital to bootstrap it. And while that’s happening we need to not let cheap Chinese cars flood the market to undercut any chance we have. So basically we need a combination of both solutions.
Yeah anytime the US “subsidizes” something in the local auto market, GM alone eats it up in 5 seconds and pretends they did something with it. Sometimes Ford and Chrysler also get a share.
I’m pretty sure they already recently gave funding to GM for EVs which will go absolutely nowhere because all their major sales are from regular gasoline cars.
I was even hopeful of Ford’s hybrid Fusion, but they killed that one too because money.
If they really want to make some serious competition, they should break up the oligopoly of car OEMs. But they never did and never will.
This exact scenario already played out with Japanese OEMs decades ago. They brought a superior product to the market, and instead of competing, they just lobbied congress to make a crap ton of stupid import laws to prevent Japanese cars from taking the market.
Then they had a weird era of those hybrid car brands where the big 3 made partnerships with Nissan, Toyota, etc for tech sharing because they couldn’t even properly R&D for crap.
Then Nissan, Toyota, Honda, and Subaru opened plants inside the USA to bypass the import stuff, and here we are today.
The only difference this time is instead of what was generally perceived as an economic ally, the new kid on the block is the next enemy after Russia. And tbh not even a major threat type of enemy.
the new kid on the block is the next enemy after Russia
Wait, why is our largest trading partner our enemy, again?
Washington can’t fathom not running their monopoly on every global market lol.
China is supposed to be a dirty 3rd world outsource nation, not a competitor. They should do as told instead of actually investing in their country’s infrastructure /s.
It’s not even the heavy subsidising, China makes the US look like it has strong employee rights and environmental regulations.
Unless china has some secret set of labor laws they follow, their labor laws are far more fair to the average worker.
The median wage for a Chinese worker is higher than the median for a us worker but the mean is the opposite, which implies the US has a huge wealth imbalance in comparison.
Edit to add a quote from the Wikipedia page on chinas environmental policy:
"Since the 2010s, the government has given greater attention to environmental protection through policy actions such as the signing of the Paris climate accord, the 13th Five-Year Plan and the 2015 Environmental Protection Law reform [7] From 2006 to 2017, sulphur dioxide levels in China were reduced by 70 percent,[8] and air pollution has decreased from 2013 to 2018[8] In 2017, investments in renewable energy amounted to US$279.8 billion worldwide, with China accounting for US$126.6 billion or 45% of the global investments.[9] China has since become the world’s largest investor, producer and consumer of renewable energy worldwide, manufacturing state-of-the-art solar panels, wind turbines and hydroelectric energy facilities as well as becoming the world’s largest producer of electric cars and buses.[10] Its commitment to reducing its greenhouse gas emissions has been a major force in decreasing the global cost of wind and solar power, in turn helping the use of renewable energy to rise globally.[11]: 8 "
I would say that all tracks but american car companies are refusing to even attempt to make an affordable electric vehicle, so how can you say its just a gap in research that subsidies would fix.
Subsidies would be drained the same way the profits were, why wouldnt they. American car companies refuse to listen to demand, and this is what they get for it.
They could build and sell a basic car (combustion) for under $15k if enough people bought them but most people don’t want stripped down compact cars. There’s just not enough of a market to justify cheap cars in the US.
I think you are right, and I hate that it is a fact.
What I want right now is a small electric kei truck or utility van for use as an in city daily driver. Just make the cargo area large enough to put 4’x8’ sheets of plywood in it and close without any fuss and I am sold, but I don’t think that’s going to happen here anytime soon.
Ford discontinued selling their small Transit Connect van here recently so that isn’t even an option anymore.
I disagree but I don’t really have any data or anything.
In my opinion most people want the least car they need. Its a tool and the simpler and more efficient the better. We won’t know because there just isnt a line of cars like that.
I have a 2017 Mitsubishi mirage manual thats very simple and efficient, not a bad example.
most people don’t want stripped down compact cars
Trying to explain this to all the Corolla owners
One could argue that China’s governmental subsidizing of the industry just shows the commitment they have to be a leader and dominant player in the future of transportation worldwide.
Does the American government have such aspirations? Does the American Auto industry have the vision and goal to adapt to a disrupted market?
In my opinion the arguments surrounding this topic come down to which country is going to work harder to play a leading role in the future.
China is making their bet, and the quality of Chinese EVs is increasing extremely rapidly. If they can so easily dominate the American Auto Market that tells us that the Americans have been sleeping at the wheel and need to make some tough choices about spending. We can curtail the onslaught through duties and various taxes and regulations but not indefinitely.
by the time the Chinese government stopped subsidies, there wouldn’t be any competition left.
What? BMW EV surpassed Tesla sales in Europe for July. BMW, VW, AUDI, Skoda all have very attractive alternatives to Tesla, and Mercedes too, if you want higher quality and don’t mind it’s a bit more expensive.
So how do you figure there is no competition without China?
From Korea we Have Hyundai and KIA, and from USA there is Rivian and Ford.
Arguably the American competition is the weakest, but still it seems to me there is lots of competition, even without including Chinese cars.
BMW EV surpassed Tesla sales in Europe for July.
You sure about that?
So how do you figure there is no competition without China?
That’s not what I was saying. What I am saying is that if left unanswered, those cars would kill all of the current competitors over time and then after that we’d be at the mercy of whatever the Chinese car manufacturers would want to charge and we’d be unable to stop it.
You sure about that?
Your numbers are June not July, there were dozens of articles about it like this one:
https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/bmw-overtakes-tesla-european-ev-sales-first-time-report-says-2024-08-22/
And this one:
https://electrek.co/2024/08/22/bmw-tops-tesla-ev-sales-first-time-gap-narrows-eu/
Although it seems to include PHEV it still makes the same claim. So I’m just going with what seems to be the standard.
That’s not what I was saying.
Sorry, I read it again, and I misunderstood, the beginning of your text implies the opposite. So it’s a bit confusing the way you write it IMO.
She have done heavy subsidies for American cars back when those Jap cars where coming in. Our government has stopped working together for those kind of things. Also those GM and Toyota years were magical to a point https://www.amazon.com/Toyota-Way-Management-Principles-Manufacturer/dp/0071392319?dplnkId=90b285f7-23e8-4c51-83d1-6f3ddcd17984&nodl=1
IMO, we need to diversify our EV makers and help provide the capital to bootstrap it.
Good business when the us does it, evil market destroying subsidies when china.
The flat truth is, subsidies or not, nobody would be able to compete with BYD because they’re completely vertically integrated(they even mine and refine their own lithium for christ sakes). They’re a company that both robustly sells battery cells and robustly sells cars. Their margins can go way tighter than anybody else can afford while they keep chasing new markets and line go up.
If quality was an issue, they might have a problem, but since they’ve been outcompeting Volkswagen and Tesla on that domestically, the only thing that will stop them at this point is tariffs, and making people pay more for an electric car when we’re in a climate crisis is just dumb to me despite the monopoly threat that BYD is.
My stance on Chinese cars is to have no tariffs on models that are $25kMSRP or less this disincentives them from overly marking them up.
If they’re assembled in America I can see them easily going higher than 25k. Someone bought a byd shark plug in hybrid pickup truck in Mexico on Reddit(they keep it registered in Mexico and drive it in the US) for just under 50k, but even at that price the quality of it was just a steal when you compare it to an F-150 lightning at 80k. They’d torch US automakers on all fronts if they were allowed to compete here.
Hmm.
So beat them to it, and corner the EV market with affordable domestic models.
Seems like a pretty simple solution to me.
I wonder how soon all EVs will be heavily marked up in order to support politicians need for more bribe money “essential petroleum industry”, regardless of country of origin
Oh no! Capitalism?! The free market?! How dare they!
