Fuck the commodification of culture.
Fuck full time content creators.
I don’t want people working full time on social networks. I don’t want to read your ad, your secret knowledge, your product placement, or sponsorship, or your oh so subtle pitch for VC funding. I’m certainly not going to give money.
I want people who do their own thing in the real world, and as a hobby and show-and-tell, submit their work freely to the Internet to hone and expand their craft and field, and gain organic enrichment altruisticly.
If you want to sell stuff and make money, make your own website and store. Not on our forum.
Don’t pollute our forum. I want to be inspired, be in awe, be entertained, be informed, and to give back in my own way that continues this cycle and fuels the forum.
We’ve fled so many greedy sites - fleeing this capitalistic parasite in hopes of finding honest discussion untainted by greed. I’m tired of fleeing.
creating things costs money. crowdfunding platforms like patreon have already proven an incredibly powerful avenue to enable independent creators who are passionate about things to share that with an audience. entertainment is, in fact, a job, which requires resources and time, and i loathe the implication that it isn’t.
100% agree. This attitude actually ends up devaluing art and entertainment because it basically boils down the to the idea that “it’s not a real job.”
That’s not what I am saying.
In my opinion the forum is a altruistic area. Is the value I provide tailoring the posts by up voting and down voting not valuable? Is the value I provide by summarizing and or giving interpretations of the articles posted here not valuable? Or engaging in thoughtful honest discussion not valuable?
I believe they are.
Do I feel entitled to some profit because of my input on this forum? No I do not.
I give this work because I provide my value to this site voluntarily, honestly, many hours of my day, altruisticly, to build a better community and discussion. I don’t demand money because I receive a community in return.
What I am saying is that this kind of stuff will segment our community, by creating a profitable segment of the community and an unprofitable segment of community, implicitly creating a “correct” and “incorrect” way. Beyond that it will introduce people to our community who care less about furthering this forum, and more about making profit.
Remember YouTube before the partner program and video responses and how much more engaged and equal that community was? And what it is now with most every prominent channel being sponsored on top of ad breaks and product placement?
Obviously, if a person wants to dedicate their full time to some art and wants money for it, they should, and I’m excited for what they produce, but this is not where to do it.
But you don’t have vibrant thoughtful debates about world events in target, you don’t purchase microwaves at the library. You go to stores to buy stuff, you go to forums to discuss stuff.
Content creators can create their own site, their own patreon, or whatever - they can freely submit their work to our forum for feedback and an audience, and they can even link someone the link to their store if they ask - but introducing the profit angle directly to our forum and integrating it in will be the beginning of the end for this community as it is. The first crack of enshitification.
Almost all of my creations which I share (mostly code and visual art) are entirely volunteer work. Community culture doesn’t cost money. Entertainment does not need to be a job, even if it must take time and work.
Of course industrial large feature films cost full-time money. But I don’t come to online communities for that.
And still there are other people than you who want to do that full-time - and in doing so provide, at least for me, more value than the 6ooth marvel billion dollar movie.
There are educators and entertainers out there who chose this as a job and are good at it. If they could live off of it by going the patreon route instead of the shitty YouTube ad spam one I’d be all for it.
I just wish your perspective was the norm. As these platforms catch on, that toxicity you mention becomes inevitable. Also tired of fleeing. I sincerely hope we don’t have to find a way to tie financial incentive into this relatively untainted community.
As far as I’m concerned, whatever they’re selling here in OP’s article ain’t it. And perhaps my ideas (above) of a future decentralized fediverse are misguided too.
I will say this: I don’t WANT to find a way to monetize this stuff. People are just increasingly more desperate for money. As the world gets worse, people are going to get increasingly more desperate to find a unique niche to fill to make a living.
Fediverse is all about inclusivity. You want to create your own community? Sure. You don’t like creators? Just block them.
It’s not about commodification of culture, but realizing that all illustrator, comic artist, writer, and designer are in the end still have to make money for their living.
Even Lemmy, Mastodon, or any FOSS software still need funding to make it works.
It’s possible to make creators on fediverse feels like their home without all corporate greed. Even right now, a lot of comic artist and writers are making their way here, posting their creativity on various instance.
Inclusivity of people not business.
Even right now, a lot of comic artist and writers are making their way here, posting their creativity on various instance.
And are they charging us? No, they’re doing it because they’re passionate about it, exactly what they were talking about.
I bet you’ll find that some do have patrons or subs or something similar.
If people want to share their work for free, that’s cool. If people want to charge for their work, that’s also cool.
The fact is, being good at something creative takes the same time and dedication as anything else, but because it’s entertainment or art people expect it for free ‘because it’s a passion’.
Should doctors passionate about medicine not get paid either?
The fact is if you want a rich culture full of awesome art, the people creating that art need to be fucking paid.
I’m not necessarily in support of monetising the fediverse or anything like that, but I also don’t begrudge anyone creative trying to actually get paid fairly for their work and time.
Sure, some of them are doing it for hobby, but most of professional comic artist that post freely on internet are doing patron or various monetizing way.
You must be not familiar with entire creative ecosystem.
Consider a universal basic income as a means to reduced the profit motive when authors create/share media.
Also consider not having an economy where our jobs dominate our lives.
There’s plenty of studies, videos and anecdotes discussing how despite technology becoming more and more efficient, we work more hours a day in the Industrial era. Most of the older culture we consider traditional didn’t come from the media industries we see today, they came from families and communities having enough time to spend together that they can create and share art and other media relevant to their own lives.
Sounds like Patreon with extra steps.
It grows the brand, Leels. It grows the brand.
Are we so hive-minded here on Lemmy that we have been brainwashed into hating crypto so much that we, a DECENTRALIZED community, have decided to start a centralized service to pay posters rather than use the trustless, decentralized systems literally DESIGNED for that purpose that already exist?
All crypto isn’t a scam, people. Stop scoring own-goals against the big banksters and do your part against crypto scams by thoroughly vetting crypto projects before you put your trust in them rather than blindly believing that they’re ALL out to scam you.
This idea should obviously be implemented with cryptocurrency but of course it isn’t because of our unfounded vilification of an entire industry that is clearly more philosophically aligned with the principles of the fediverse than centralized, legacy systems that we’ve been duped into continuing to support.
🤦
I’m not complaining about it being crypto - I prefer crypto over credit card payments for online stuff. On the other hand, any monetisation of online communities leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I came to Lemmy years ago to get a step further away from for-profit internet treating me like a customer. Root of all evil, and all that.
I couldn’t agree more. When I was proposing crypto tie-in for votes, someone mentioned the Cobra Effect and I honestly had no answer to prevent it. I think it is wise to proceed under the assumption that it is somewhat inevitable that we see some sort of monetization as the user base grows and it becomes prohibitively expensive to run an instance. Personally, I think it is important that we really get deep into these discussion now so we can find a good consensus (with the least tradeoffs) before it’s too late and people just start forcfeeding users the classic “enshittification” modus operandi. I think the method detailed in this article is straight up enshitification incarnate; Patreon with more steps.
I disagree. The fediverse just proves you can have successful decentralisation without any whiff of blockchain. You call them legacy systems, but they are in fact still current systems aren’t they… we’re still using them.
You don’t want decentralization? Your argument against crypto is that we still use centralized systems? We will do that until we don’t. That’s like way back before cars were ubiquitous, seeing a car and saying, “we use the horse and buggy.” Yes we do. The car replaces the horse and buggy in many important ways. It takes a while to catch on, though. In the same way, IMO technology should always be guided toward further decentralization unless we WANT the powers that be to be the gatekeepers of information.
Honestly, even without crypto attached to it, I’d say the next version of the internet WILL be more servers running by independent operators and less centralization in data centers. It is inevitable regardless of anything I wrote here. Centralization is bad for so many reasons…the most damning of which is censorship.
There are lots of arguments against crypto, but the main one is that it is inferior to the current system in every conceivable way.
-It’s slower -It’s harder to use -It’s full of scams -It’s backed by nothing -There is no consumer protection -It amplifies the existing problems of the financial system instead of solving them (money laundering/scams/financial inequality) -It’s dominated by the same rich cunts you’re trying to escape, but they’re even worse in crypto -All networks generally need L2s because they’re so shit and slow
Those are just some off the top of my head.
Additionally, it’s been around for a long time now. Everyone in crypto is so involved in solving the problems that are unique to crypto and Blockchain that they’ve missed the fact that no one gives a shit because it literally offers nothing we don’t already have that works better.
The only reason anyone has ever cared about crypto is because it potentially offered a way to get rich quickly and ‘easily’ and get out of the grind.
It’s a casino. That’s fine, you might make money. But that’s all it is.
I’m not saying the current system is ideal, or even good, but crypto is nothing like a viable alternative.
I’m all for decentralisation, but you do realise that all systems end up centralising to some extent over time because it’s just more efficient, right? Maybe we can find a good balance and make sure accountability actually means something in our systems, whatever industry they’re in, but the answer isn’t crypto from what I’ve seen.
Interesting you talk about gatekeeping information when you’re literally parroting crypto echo chamber rhetoric because if you dare suggest anything other than crypto is the future you will instantly get shut down. It’s a cult, basically.
All (capitalistic) money is a scam.
We’re just forced to use a currency because governments say so.
So yes, your crypto is still a scam. Because money still vanishes into thin air when line goes down.
Let me ask you this then: How do you think servers will continue to run? Do they run for free on fairy magic?
I don’t live in a communist country. So, I fail to see your point about money being a scam. Yes. Of course. But I can’t tell my landlord that money is a scam. He will want money for me to continue not being homeless.
3rd generation cryptocurrencies are an attempt to decentralize and democratize computation. If you have a better way to pay people for use of their servers, I’d be happy to hear it but right now you are literally using a server that runs because someone decided to do so for free. It won’t always be that way when this technology scales beyond one server operator’s practical limit. We will need ways to pay people for the use of their electricity and hardware. If you can think of a better way that ISN’T fraught with corruption, centralization, and loss of anonymity, I’d love to read it.
Im not entirely sure i understood everything but is donation the solution you’re looking for?
Can you see how “there’s not a better solution” isn’t addressing the problem that crypto is fundamentally a scam?
Also, you can’t pay your rent with crypto either….
EDIT: if you want crypto to pass my sniff test, you have to explain where value comes from.
Fiat currency is valuable because I can pay my taxes with it. (This is really the only reason it has value).
So what underpins crypto value beyond “it’s the future”
I don’t understand the down votes
=> I always read up and down votes as a tool to flag valuable posts. It feels like down vote on this one is about agreement with the news?
It’s not a valuable post, a service like Club Sub will add nothing good to the Fediverse. My downvote should be seen as a deterrence for potential wannabe fulltime content creators. Stay on your YouTube, your Twitter, Insta, Reddit, Patreon and X.
Stay away from my Fediverse!
Also, it’s an article on The Verge. Which is by default low quality.
Creators like illustrator, comic artist, cosplayer, or blogger needs money to sustain their works.
Fediverse is not anti creators. There are a lot of attempt (especially Japanese fediverse community) to embrace this demography.
It’s possible to create pro-creator service without making fediverse succumb to corporate greed.
After all, fediverse should be all about inclusivity. If you don’t like creators, just block them.
creators are welcome to post in the fediverse and tag their paid platform so long as they respect the rules of whatever community they post in. everyone has to eat. turning the fediverse into a tansactional platform is just coporate social media with extra steps. the articles getting downvoted because its one step shy of a linkedin ad disguised as a post. if i wanted to read posts about the beauty of the grind or some other nonsese, i’d be on fucking twitter or facebook. this place exists specifically to not be those places.
It’s being downvoted because the entire tone is that the fediverse needs monetization, despite the fact that every single one of the pressures that resulted in the fediverse existing and being relevant resulted from money having undue influence on the experience to the detriment of users and usability.
