3 points

SUVs, commercial airlines, and industrial beef? I wouldn’t lump those in as industries that only exist to grow capital, because they are producing useful products and services for consumers beyond the super rich. I get the feeling that these were included solely for environmental reasons.

Not defending the environmental impact of SUVs and beef here, but commercial airlines can be better for the environment than cars. On average, it seems an airline emits about a quarter of a pound of CO2 per passenger per mile, which is about a third of what a passenger vehicle gives off (not per person, but not everyone vacations in groups.) Plus, they’re conveniently fast.

permalink
report
reply
2 points
*

I’m confused… Aren’t there EV SUVs now? Why is he calling out SUV and not, say, pickup trucks? Even so, why say any specific car type vs. just saying ICE vehicles?

permalink
report
parent
reply
4 points

SUV

calling out SUV’s specifically for multiple reasons - ICE SUV’s are the worst, having the low fuel efficiency of work trucks, while being less safe than trucks or cars for passengers or pedestrians. EV SUV’s are just taking the same problems - truck frames, lots of weight, poor visibility - and adding an EV powertrain to ameliorate the fuel inefficiency. But since they have to haul around all the extra SUV weight, they’re at best a poor compromise instead of a large improvement.

permalink
report
parent
reply
6 points

I could be wrong, but I think there are other possible reasons SUVs were mentioned. I think having more walkable cities would part of (or at least adjacent to) the degrowth movement. As such, SUVs are kinda the poster child for the vehicle size arms race which makes roads less safe for pedestrians and cyclists.

I wouldn’t be surprised to see pickup trucks on that list too, however they do have a somewhat more plausible use case.

permalink
report
parent
reply
8 points

Do it without feudalism though.

permalink
report
reply
1 point

Development of history toward equity is blocked

“So you wanna change it back to even worse times!!??”

permalink
report
parent
reply
8 points
*

We are kind of not doing it now, and with feudalism.

permalink
report
parent
reply
12 points

You can not do it with feudalism. The problem is that we need to take from the rich and allow every single human being a decent material lifestyle. We can not do that with feudalism, as that would mean the poor get poorer and the rich stay rich.

permalink
report
parent
reply
10 points

That’s like… The entire point

permalink
report
parent
reply
13 points

thing with cruise ships is they basically can duck out taxes. Its like when casinos had to be boats and then you had them built on artificial lakes and they would go no where but detach from the dock for a period to meet the legal requirement. You could have docked cruise ships acting as all service condos if they would just let them have the same rules. Or better yet have special residential districts that just allow apartments like that to be built.

permalink
report
reply
6 points

They need diesel to run. Tax the diesel. Right now fossil fuels get subsidies. Just change that.

permalink
report
parent
reply
3 points

thats the thing. since they operate mostly in international waters it gives them some sort of tax advantage and they supply from the lowest cost area and such.

permalink
report
parent
reply
1 point

Sure. But they still have to dock. If you tax it in half the countries, they will still have to pay half the time.

permalink
report
parent
reply
7 points

The idea is to not built new cruise ships. The old ones should be used and using them as apartment buildings is a good idea.

permalink
report
parent
reply
4 points

and they burn the worst fuel, and often burn fuel while docked when they could be hooked up to shore power.

then they take boatloads of tourists to areas that are ecologically critical - the arctic and antarctic - while their boats burn bunker oil and spew their accumulated feces into the ocean. it’s supposed to be treated but… that’s just business.

permalink
report
parent
reply

Degrowth

!degrowth@slrpnk.net

Create post

Discussions about degrowth and all sorts of related topics. This includes UBI, economic democracy, the economics of green technologies, enviromental legislation and many more intressting economic topics.

Community stats

  • 557

    Monthly active users

  • 140

    Posts

  • 290

    Comments

Community moderators