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edit: LOL i’ve never seen such butthurt from a simple link to a logical fallacy, which 100% applies in this case
thank you, @SmoothOperator@lemmy.world for the insight:
evidence gathering and following genocide evaluation can be much better performed by organizations with expertise and authority on such matters. Most of the listed organizations are considering expert evidence gatherers and experienced, empowered authorities of genocide evaluation.
expertise. authority. truth.
That’s incorrect, this isn’t talking about what the masses believe but what actual experts and legal scholars and courts are overwhelmingly saying. That fallacy doesn’t apply to a judge’s rulings.
actual experts and legal scholars and courts are overwhelmingly saying.
wow, “overwhelmingly saying” i guess what they say must be true then LOL
No.
Your fallacy would apply to something like
80 percent of Americans believe that …
But not to
Judges from all over the world came to the conclusion …
The whole thing this fallacy is trying to explain is that you should ask the experts, not the general population.
thank you! i’ll keep this on deck in case i ever make a fallacious argument
But you did.
This isn’t an argumentum ad populum fallacy because the argument isn’t based solely on the number of people or organizations making the claim; it’s based on the authority and credibility of these entities.
Whether you agree or disagree with those entities and question their credibility is a separate matter, but it’s not argumentum ad populum. For the same reason the following isn’t:
The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, the World Health Organization, the American Cancer Society, the American Heart Association, and the National Institutes of Health all claim that smoking causes lung cancer and heart disease, so it must be true.
If anything, this would be an appeal to authority. It’s not like the post is saying half of the American people believe it’s genocide and therefore it is. No, the claim is that several relevant organizations like the ICC, ICJ, and Human Rights Watch, etc., are saying that it is genocide. That’d be like claiming that the vast majority of climate scientists believing in global warming is supporting evidence that global warming is likely true. It is. It’s not enough evidence on its own, but it is evidence nonetheless.
That’s the thing. Not all appeals to authority are fallacious. Supporting a claim with an expert’s opinion is a logically sound way to support an argument.
Fuck Israel and the Palestinians for being endlessly shitty to each other and dragging the whole gottdam world into their regional territorial dispute over and over for the better part of the last century. Fuck the whole lot of them together for perpetuating the most narcissistic conflict of the 20th century. Everyone’s a victim and everyone’s an aggressor and we are all supposed to dissect their long historical bullshit and form a moral opinion?! Fuck off and leave us all out of your fucking drama.
I voted you down because I think you are making a few errors here:
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Not every Palestinian is Hamas. Hamas is a genocidal organization that wishes it could kill every Israeli, including civilians, but not every Palestinian believes in that. And not every Israeli agrees with IDF’s genocide, although a disappointingly high proportion of them do.
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IDF is clearly more successful in their genocide of Palestinians than Hamas is in their attempted genocide of Israelis.
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Even if Hamas and IDF both were equal, a lot of the English-speaking Internet (including many Lemmings here) are Americans, and pay American taxes, and therefore have an obligation to stop the genocide funded by our taxes, through money and weapons the US government sends to Israel. Even if both sides were equally bad, we (I and other Americans) recognize the need to stop Israel, but have no obligation to stop Hamas because we aren’t sending them the weapons in the first place.
Thank you for being one if the few that rip into Hamas at the same time as calling Israel out. I disagree on downvoting them as they contributed to the conversation, but points don’t matter.
On point 1, outside of a few extremists I don’t think anyone considers all of Palestine to be a part of Hamas - its just how we talk.
America isn’t becoming a backwards, puritan and corrupt country - the Republicans are and they held the power. But we don’t say that, we just say America is turning to shit. China doesn’t have aggressive expansionist goals, the CCP does. Russia isn’t a warmongering state, Putin and his running party are.
On point 1, outside of a few extremists I don’t think anyone considers all of Palestine to be a part of Hamas
“We’re liberating the Palestinian people from Hamas” is a zionist talking point. Learn to recognize that pattern when it’s used to justify action against other countries; eg sanctions against Cuba, Syria, Iran, North Korea, which primarily hurt the people.
Most of the other Palestinian parties, some of which have literal had gun battles with Hamas have started working with them since Oct 7. The PLFP knows more about what’s good for the future of the Palestinian people than either of us, and they’re willing to work with Hamas.
America isn’t becoming a backwards, puritan and corrupt country
I mean it kinda always has been. The government has always been much more reactionary than the people, but it’s always been a puritan country with legalized corruption, going as far back as Washington passing taxes to give his distilleries competitive advantage. I can link you some free history books on America, is there any time period that interests you?
China…
The CPC has overwhelming support from the population, it does a better job of representing the people than most western democracies, evidenced by greatest increase in living standards for a large country in history. Do you think it’s more likely the people have aggressive expansionist goals, or that you have an incomplete understanding?
Russia isn’t a warmongering state
Russia is a bourgeoisie democracy, if Putin and his party didn’t do what the Russian bourgeoisie wanted, they’d put someone else in power. The state is warmongering, the people aren’t.
Hamas is a genocidal organization that wishes it could kill every Israeli
Hamas is pretty careful to differentiate Jewish people, some of whom have lived in Palestine for millennia, and the Zionist project, which requires the ethnic cleansing of Palestine.
Hamas is pretty careful to differentiate Jewish people
Ah, so what happened on October 7th?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_Hamas-led_attack_on_Israel
Or is what happened okay because only ‘Zionists’ were killed?
Oh, no …
I donate to Doctors Without Borders.
looks at hands What have I done?!
the zionist brain-rot is real
