ASHLAND — Twenty-six Amish who refused to pay their fines for violating a law that requires flashing lights on their buggies appeared in court on Friday.
Once there, Ashland Municipal Court Judge John Good ruled out the possibility of jail time for them and instead said he would impose liens on their real estate.
People are so up in arms at the seeming contradiction of Amish using a light and a battery on their buggies.
Guess what: most Amish businesses have cell phones. If you drive through Amish country in Ohio, you will see dozens of people in Amish garb riding e-bikes.
I hate cars and judges, and frankly Ohio is a hellhole; but if some lights are going to make people safer it really isn’t going to be that big of a burden. If the judge says they have to do it, then their community elders will approve it, nbd.
None of you ever had Mennonite friends and it shows.
By victims I assume you mean unsuspecting drivers coming across a dark, unlighted vehicle in the road at night who could be injured or killed by an accident or swerving to avoid one, right?
If they can’t see a fucking cart with their headlights on, then what chance do they have of avoiding a cyclist or a pedestrian out for a walk?
Some people shouldn’t be allowed to drive.
Well i assume the drivers used headlights at night so they can see where they’re going and if there are obstacles in the way.
No, by victims we mean the people using a road in the way roads were used for centuries, completely legally. The ones being hit from behind by people in too much of a hurry to use proper caution in area where Amish frequently travel and they are not the only users of the roadway.
If I drive through a neighborhood with a “Children at Play” sign and run over a kid, I can 100% guarantee you that I am not the victim. That is some very cringe logic. The road exists first for pedestrians, secondly for non-motorized vehicles, and lastly… for automobiles.
The idea behind the typical Amish perspective on technology is to preserve community. Exceptions are sometimes made as necessary or reasonable, washing machines being one of the most popular exceptions. It seems to be working well for them.
Wouldn’t reflectors work and be low-to-no technology to allow Amish to keep to their tradition? I’m thinking similar material to diamond grade street signs.
No. I live in PA, and we have a similar law. I remember before it was passed, and seeing buggies with just the reflectors.
Close up, directly in front of lights, you can see reflectors fine, but your lights aren’t always pointing at them. Maybe it’s a curve or a hill, maybe they are approaching an intersection, but flashing lights can be seen from all angles.
Also, most Amish have no problem using modern technology when required. It’s not like a pathological fear, it’s a religious devotion to self-reliance. They use cell phones and power tools when they need to, and they hire “English” (non-Amish) to drive them in cars. Some are more insular than others, and they rarely get involved in politics, so they mostly just do whatever is required.
Maybe it’s a curve or a hill, maybe they are approaching an intersection, but flashing lights can be seen from all angles.
Note that this law requires Amish use lights even in daytime, which won’t be visible around a bend or hill at such times. What’s next…telling bikes/peds they also have to go around wearing daytime strobe lights?
Bikes should have daytime strobes and headlamps. Cars should always have their headlights on. Visibility reduces accidents.
You can be on a curved road or a hill and have vehicles you can see that are not within your headlight beams. Further, if a vehicle is obstructed by a curve or hill, you may see lights illuminate the dark ahead of you before the vehicle comes into view.
There’s no reason not to have lights on vehicles on the road.
I honestly can’t tell if this is sarcasm since motorcycles and cars in the US have required daytime running lights for a couple decades.
The Amish actually do use technology, but they can’t use it unless there’s no other alternative, for example word processing.
Also, they tend to use Linux.
That’s a broad statement. Different sects and communities have different levels of what they consider acceptable.
Also, they tend to use Linux.
I’m assuming only Gentoo, right? Compiling libraries you will never need is the height of decadence.
They already use those. This goes a lot deeper than “buggies are hard to see” and gets into governmentally preferred classes. Requiring the Amish switch from reflectors to lights is an act of both victim blaming and attempted cultural erasure
Horse-drawn carriages are slow-moving vehicles just like construction or agricultural equipment, or stationary obstacles. They present a danger if visibility is limited by weather or the road’s curvature.
Where I live, every vehicle is required to be illuminated when outside city limits, including carriages, and the horses themselves.
I hate this framing. The danger doesn’t come from the slow moving buggies, it comes from cars moving too fast to stop within the driver’s line of sight. Instead of a buggy, the “obstacle” could also be a pedestrian, a deer or a fallen tree. Should blinking lights be required for those, too?
I am looking at all the comments and sub comments and realizing almost all the people commenting don’t realize this is posted in fuckcars.
The entire point of this community is to point out how cars have screwed everyone else from using roads and paths that at times predated cars. Most major city’s could add good bike paths and lighten the traffic by using bikes or any other non vehicle option.
It’s the responsibility of the driver not to hit something, not the something not to get hit.
See halfsack’s comment. To elaborate on that point, actually good & competent drivers have many responsibilities. Among them is to see…and be seen.
As others have said, a lot of these buggies are all black. And they’re puttering around the road, on a dark nights, well under established speed limits. 2 vehicles traveling at very different speeds, the slow one is hard to see. That’s just begging for an accident.
At least where I live, it is technically illegal to drive without headlights on when it’s raining. If windshield wipers are required, so are headlights. This is to bolster visibility in poor weather conditions. Also just headlights in general, you can get pulled over & ticketed for driving at night without headlights. Why should the Amish be a dangerous exception to the rules of the road??
This alone: Roads funded by taxpayers, which IIRC the Amish are largely tax-exempt. Thus: if they wish to travel on our roads, they need to abide by our rules & not make the roads more dangerous.
To be slightly more accommodating to Luddites, we could put hi-vis reflective tape on the buggies. But again as others have said, the Amish have all kinds of workarounds/exceptions/justifications to get what they want. They have mobile phones. Some have snowmobiles. They have generators, so they’re not “tied into the worldly grid” but they generate & use electricity. So maybe they can get used to the idea of battery-powered lights on their buggies, for visibility.
This comment is surprisingly car brained. Just change a few words and see what it reads.
As others have said, a lot of these buggies are all black. And they’re puttering around the road, on a dark nights, well under established speed limits. 2 vehicles traveling at very different speeds, the slow one is hard to see. That’s just begging for an accident.
As others have said, a lot of these cyclists all wear black. And they’re puttering around the road, on a dark nights, well under established speed limits. 2 vehicles traveling at very different speeds, the slow one is hard to see. That’s just begging for an accident.
At least where I live, it is technically illegal to drive without headlights on when it’s raining. If windshield wipers are required, so are headlights. This is to bolster visibility in poor weather conditions. Also just headlights in general, you can get pulled over & ticketed for driving at night without headlights. Why should the Amish be a dangerous exception to the rules of the road??
At least where I live, it is technically illegal to drive without headlights on when it’s raining. If windshield wipers are required, so are headlights. This is to bolster visibility in poor weather conditions. Also just headlights in general, you can get pulled over & ticketed for driving at night without headlights. Why should the cyclists be a dangerous exception to the rules of the road??
It’s the responsibility of everyone on the road to follow the same laws. A horse and buggy are about the same size as a car and everyone I’ve ever seen is painted completely black. Many Amish communities have been running battery powered led signal and head lights for decades with no issues.
It’s fucking stupid. Anyone who can’t see an object in front of their car needs to have their license revoked.
I’m from an area where this can be a problem. In my experience it’s pretty easy to see the buggys during the day, but at night on an unlit state road even with good head lights they can be hard to see until you are practically right on top of them.
Yeah, fuck cars, but it’s just kinda a crap situation in general.
But like deer and dogs are basically camouflaged. So is a fallen tree. A driver needs to be able to avoid road hazards that haven’t been designed for visibility.
If it’s so dark that it’s hard to distinguish non-reflective objects on the road, the driver needs to slow down until their object perception time is well within their stopping time. And that needs to cover the hardest objects to perceive, IMO.
at night on an unlit state road even with good head lights they can be hard to see until you are practically right on top of them.
Children, animals, etc are going to be even harder to see I’d think. Seems like people are just going too fast for the visibility they have…
This is probably true. However weather and other factors can add a loss of visibility. Every other vehicle on the road has a lighting system for a reason. It’s safer. Children are not usually roaming around at night.
