I’m about to go ahead and go 100% Linux on my PC and completely get rid of Windows. The latest advancements in Windows application compatibility for Linux has taken strides and it’s now easier than ever to run Windows apps thanks to Wine and Bottles and Steam’s Proton. There’s literally nothing I can’t do in Linux that I could do in Windows.
The distro of choice I will probably go for is going to be Kubuntu. But I’ve been looking at immutable distros as a more stable alternative. But, it sounds to me like it’s more adapted for smaller devices and IoT, like the Steam Deck or similar handheld devices.
Have you installed an immutable distro on your PC? What distro did you use? What was your experience like? What were the pros and cons according to you?
But, it sounds to me like it’s more adapted for smaller devices and IoT, like the Steam Deck or similar handheld devices.
There are plenty of desktop focused immutable Linux distros. With Fedora Sikverblue/Kinoite probably being the most prominent one, but there are also Vanilla OS, the ublue distros and the one I’m personally using, (openSUSE) Aeon. NixOS technically counts too I think, but that one has it’s whole own philosophy/structure that extends way beyond just being immutable
What were the pros and cons according to you?
Pros: increased stability/less risk of breakage, sepaeation of base system/apps that will be more intuitive to many non-Linux users, (Flatpak) apps tend to always be the newest version
Cons: still some smaller pain points around app integration, some flatpaks might have some features that don’t fully work or you might need to change a permission (this has gotten a lot better already though), less suited for tinkerers
I know I’m late to the party, but don’t do you think Aeon is ready to be a daily driver?
I currently run Debian stable, but I’m interested in Aeon as an alternative.
Definitely not just for handhelds. Check out Universal Blue images which are built ontop of Fedora Atomic (the immutable variant). Bazzite is an awesome gaming distro that’s rock solid. Bluefin is awesome for Devs and more technical people. But even for non-devs it’s awesome since the images are purpose build with and without all the devs tools. You pick your preferred DE (KDE or GNOME), and your graphics drivers.
Almost everything is setup for you that you would have to do mannually compared to Fedora Atomic, and additional quality of life tweaks are included as well.
Been running, Bazzite on my gaming rig for months now and it’s been great. Running the Cosmic/Gnome UBlue image on my framework laptop for months and its also been amazing.
I’ll add that Bazzite, while it works for Steam Deck, is and always has been built for desktops first. Steam Deck just works out well as a target, because SteamOS is already immutable-ish and is also a Linux distro.
I ran Fedora Silverblue for the past few months. The selling point that convinced me was that the system you install is the exact same the developers use for testing.
I also hoped it would just update itself without any intervention. And I was fine with default Gnome and Flatpaks.
My experience was that it actually offered no real world benefit. Arch had fewer visible bugs. It crashed a few times, in a way that the only way out was cutting power. The auto-update didn’t work, I still had to manually check for updates and click “install”, and every update requires a reboot. Sometimes it needed 2. Video streaming was jerky even in the flat hub version of Firefox.
And it’s pretty limiting: Many command line tools I’m used to were missing, even Gnome Tweaks was missing (WTF?). Of course I could “layer the image” and alter it to include what I need, but that defeats the entire purpose. And system tools don’t work well in containers, either.
There’s basically no in-depth documentation on how to do stuff that is standard on other distros but now doesn’t work the same due to the immutability. And it had just too many inexplicable quirks to use it as a zero maintenance grandma OS.
I switched back to Debian. Installed just the minimum required base system, the minimum required packages to run Gnome shell, and got all my software from Flatpaks. It looks basically the same, is more stable and bug-free, and I can tinker on the command line if I feel like it.
I made an
alias Upd="doas apt update && doas apt dist-upgrade && doas apt autoremove --purge && flatpak update"
which is so much faster than using the gnome software center.
&& flatpak update
You can also include in your alias to clean up more space.
That’s what I’m afraid of. Lacking features and having to take weird extra steps to get what I want and tweak the system the way I want.
I’m a bit of a power user and I’m wondering if a immutable distro could work for me over a regular one.
Lacking features
It’s important to mention that the specific way by which ‘immutability’ and all of its associations are implemented, is key to determine what possible limitations are. Perhaps to gain a better grasp on this, consider reading this blog post. Note that due to the (very) active development ‘immutable’ distros enjoy, not everything found within that article is accurate.
and having to take weird extra steps to get what I want and tweak the system the way I want.
Does uninstalling Jokes aside, the way that ‘immutable’ distros want you to do stuff is simply unconventional compared to traditional distros. Heck, even the need to (soft-)reboot to apply changes to the base system is almost unheard of on traditional distros. However, unconventional does not necessarily imply weird. Care to elaborate when something goes from unconventional to weird?snapd on Kubuntu fall under this?
I’m a bit of a power user and I’m wondering if a immutable distro could work for me over a regular one.
It depends on your priorities. There’s a ‘cost’ that comes with going ‘immutable’; mostly related to how it’s still relatively immature and/or unpopular. However, even in this state, there are problems it solves and tackles that traditional distros don’t.
Regarding ‘being a power user’, like what’s even the wildest thing you’d want to do?
From my personal testing experience I would say the concept is solid but the existing distros are not there yet, with some missing features, minimal documentation and several rough edges in their containerisation approach (as in: some features and things not working because the container wasn’t well adapted to the immutable OS yet).
