seems like the ‘safe’ public opinion is ‘we stand behind israel’ and the left opinion is palestinian support
i don’t live there i don’t have any particular interest or fascination with the region i don’t understand any of this pls don’t yell at me
My general sympathy is with the Palestinians who struggle from systemic oppression, but defo not with the atrocities committed by Hamas. How one can support and excuse the recent events is beyond me.
Just because you’re oppressed doesn’t mean you can just go out there and slaughter random people. I mean they even killed tourists, who have no role in this ethnical conflict. But I don’t think they even care…
Hamas are awful, and murdering the innocent is always vile. The problem is that both sides have an endless “but they started it!” going on. Hamas terrorists kidnapping and murdering innocent people: awful. Isreali military bombing innocent people :awful. Both sides claim to be defending themselves. Both sides are making things worse for themselves and others.
But Isreali will win by slowly murdering the Palestinians. Hamas will not win by occasionally murdering Israelis. Because the combined forces of almost all Western governments are onside with the Isreali government.
So, illegal terrorist acts are rightly called out, and funding to Palestine stopped until it can be proven the money won’t go to Hamas. But, even when the UN or indvidual countries call out Isreal for war crimes or illegal actions, they don’t stop funding their military. Per capita, Isreal spends more on its military than the USA (Israel (~$2770), United States (~$2405) with the USA providing 20% of Isreal military spending. So it’s an extremely lopsided bothsidesbad situation.
https://usafacts.org/articles/how-much-military-aid-does-the-us-give-to-israel/
Too many countries/companies profit from this conflict. The economy has adapted to it & is built on it. So are the politics… There is no winner besides religious fundamentalism and capitalism.
Can’t see your image properly btw, it’s not loading. Neither on sync nor on liftoff.
It’s pretty easy to explain: It’s complicated.
Basically, it’s a conflict that had been running for a really long time.
Before WW1, the area of Israel/Palestine was inhabited by Arabs and controlled by the Ottomans.
During WW1, the Brits promised the Arabs that they’d back an independent arab state there, if the Arabs revolted and successfully kicked out the Ottomans.
The Arabs did their part, so Britain, being as trustworthy as ever, turned around and divvied the Ottoman empire up between them, and Britain got control over what was then called Mandatory Palestine, which the Arabs saw as a betrayal. The official plan was for the Brits to rule the Mandate “until such time as they are able to stand alone”.
At the same time, the Zionist Jews wanted to have a national state, where they could live without persecution, and many European nations, where antisemitism was rampant, wanted them gone from Europe, so they kinda had an agreement there. The original plan was to move them to a part of Uganda, but that fell through so Palestine was chosen.
Already long before the national state was created, lots of Jews moved there and created settlements. The Arabs there weren’t exactly happy about that massive influx of settlers and the Jews also weren’t happy about the natives. Each of them started an uprising over the following years, and with tensions rising, the UN drafted a partition plan.
While the opinion of the Jews over that partition plan was ambivalent, though leaning towards being happy about it, the Arabs were decidedly unhappy about it. They thought, that the UN was overstepping it’s rights and that the partition plan was violating the principles of self-determinism set forth by the UN charter.
So a war broke out between the Arabs (including surrounding arab countries) and the Jews there, which resulted in a victory for the Jews. After that, the area was divided up between Jewish Israel, the west bank area controlled by Jordan and inhabited by Arabs, and the tiny area called Gaza strip, controlled by Egypt and inhabited by Palestinians.
The area the Palestinians received after the war was significantly smaller than what was outlined in the UN partition plan.
In 1967, during the six-day war, Israel captured the Gaza strip and it’s been under Israeli occupation ever since. In 1993, Israel granted the Gaza strip limited self-government over the area. Basically, Gaza was allowed to self-government about matters of the populated areas, but Israel remained in control in regards to the airspace, the territorial waters and all border crossings except the one towards Egypt, which is controlled by Egypt.
In 2007, Hamas took over the government of Gaza. Most of the world classify them as a terror organisation, and they have been e.g. shooting home-build missiles into Israel and also have mounted a few small-scale insurrections and attacks against Israel.
Israel on the other hand has been casually bombarding and killing Palestinians for a very long time. Also, they let Israeli settlers illegally settle in occupied Palestinian territories, which the Palestinians are not so happy about.
From 2008 until 2020, roughly 5600 Palestinians and 250 Israelis (including many civilians on both sides) have been killed, and 115 000 Pakistanis and 5600 Israelis have been injured (source: https://www.statista.com/chart/amp/16516/israeli-palestinian-casualties-by-in-gaza-and-the-west-bank/).
The Gaza strip is pretty much an outdoor prison, with a massive population density, low life expectency and abysmal living standards. People are generally not allowed to leave from there. Israel routinely cuts water/electricity, which are both supplied by Israel in response to attacks from Palestine.
All in all, it’s a right mess that’s been brewing for over 100 years, with no easy solutions. By now, everyone who has been responsible for causing the original mess is dead. Of the leadership neither side is in the right, both sides are making everything worse. There is no solution in sight.
The Palestinians fight the oppression by killing civilians, the Israelis counter by killing civilians and making life even more hell for the people in the occupied territories, who in turn fight even harder and kill more civilians.
Reducing oppression is hardly possible, since that would allow the Palestinians to mount bigger attacks.
Which brings us to the current situation. Palestinians managed to break out of Gaza, at many places even destroying the perimeter fence. They then invaded some towns and a music festival in the border regions, killing a few hundred Israeli civilians and taking some more hostage. Israel countered by bombarding the Gaza strip, killing a few hundred Palestinian civilians. They also, again, cut power and electricity, and the whole western world then responded with cutting food supply.
This in turn will radicalize the Palestinians even more, who will fight harder, and who knows where it ends. Probably with the Israelis finally finding the same answer to “the Palestinian Question” that Germany found for the “Jewish Question” in the 1940s.
Really nice summary. Heads up you say Pakistani instead of Palestinian a few times.
Never knew about the Uganda thing. Fascinating. Must read more on that.
Another indigenous population beginning with P who got fucked over by brits who had never been to the area. Easy mistake to make.
Reducing oppression is hardly possible, since that would allow the Palestinians to mount bigger attacks.
I feel like there are many things Israel does that are not useful in stopping attacks and ending them should be possible. Intentionally killing civilians and destroying civilian infrastructure are among those.
It’s totally true that killing civilians means you radicalize all their family and friends.
In 2006, the newly elected Hamas government actually stepped down during a negotiated cease fire and agreed to a unity government.
Then the Israelis accidentally (at least according to their statements) bombed a residential building, killing 24 civilians including children and injuring many more.
That’s when the Hamas took back the government (some would point out, illegally, since there was no official election after they stepped down) and resumed the attacks on Israel.
But all in all, it’s a prisoner’s dilemma situation. The current situation sucks, but for both sides it would probably be worse, at least in short-term, to unilaterally reduce aggressions without the other side doing the same.
Understandably (after all this bloodshed over such a long period), there are quite a few people on both sides who will stop at nothing short but the eradication of the other side. That’s not exactly a viable basis for negotiations.
And with every attack, every uprising, every repression and every civilian killed, this gets worse.
Just came to say thanks for the elaborated summary. Was already informed about the greater outlinings, but this adds some interesting details about the conflict.
This will be a ‘thing’ for many more decades. The hatred on both sides is so deeply grounded…quite depressing to see.
The really difficult thing is that nobody who caused the situation in the first place is still alive. Almost every Israeli or Palestinian alive today was born into this inherited conflict. So everyone there can argue that they have the right to be there in their own way. And everyone there has decades of inherited conflict and trauma. This is not going to get better any time soon.
Almost every
A majority, but to say almost every is an exaggeration. There are lots of Israelis who were not born into the conflict but choose to migrate into it. That said they tend to move in from places that have an antisemitism problem like the US and Ukraine, and in the case of Ukraine there are obviously additional factors for leaving, so I find it hard to blame individuals though they are fueling a colonial project even if they don’t vocalize support for it.
Pretty good summary, but I would object, that “Hamas” is something like a “government” in Gaza. It’s a terrorist group that took control of the Gaza territory and it’s people without ever having been elected by someone (in fact, they are suppressing any kind of election since they took over the power from the Palestinian authorities). They are also using the Gaza population as “living shields” against counter strikes to their terror attacks. Nowadays they also have international hostages, which would make a counter-offensive even more difficult.
A possible - although very unlikely - solution to the conflict could be a de-radicaiisation on both sides and the Palestinians finally overthrowing the Hamas-regime and any other terrorist groups, because those are not fighting for Palestinian freedom, but for some crappy “Jihad” ideas and the destruction of Israel.
Unfortunately this will never happen…
A government doesn’t have to be democratically elected. Even a dictatorship that came into power due to a military coup is considered a government.
As long as the Hamas control the area, they are a government.
If you check out the corresponding Wikipedia section (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_Strip#Governance) you can see, that they are considered a government.
your summary is excellent but I think you have a typo re: Pakistanis, did you mean Palestinians? it’s hard to terrorize the people 6 countries and 3500km to the west.
From 2008 until 2020, roughly 5600 Palestinians and 250 Israelis (including many civilians on both sides) have been killed, and 115 000 Pakistanis and 5600 Israelis have been injured (source: https://www.statista.com/chart/amp/16516/israeli-palestinian-casualties-by-in-gaza-and-the-west-bank/).
How long do you have? Here’s the very brief summary, and full disclaimer, I don’t have dog in this race.
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Jerusalem is an important place for both Jews and Muslims.
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They’ve been fighting over this space for two millenia. The Roman’s had it for a long time (Christian), the Ottomans had it for a long time (Islamic).
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After WW1 and the Ottomans were defeated, it passed onto the Turkish (Islamic).
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After WW2, with Britain now in control of it (Palestine) and with the surviving Jews now displaced worldwide with no country to live, the U.N decided to give Jews a new home and call this new place the State of Israel. They put Israel right in the middle of Palestine, which no Islamic nation could object to because they were all defeated in war.
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Since then, Jews call Israel their home country. Surrounding Islamic countries don’t recognise Israel and want the Jews to leave.
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Islamic nations including Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon, Iran, Syria have all gone to war with Israel (the 6-day War) to kick the Jews out. They’ve all lost because Israel is militarily backed by world powers. Israel is now a military powerhouse and have full control of the region.
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Israel allow Muslim Palestinians small areas to live in the area, namely Gaza and the West Bank, but they’re not particularity nice to the Muslims living there. This is the Palestinian/Israeli war that’s been going on for almost a century.
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This space is now two main religions crammed into a very small space. Both claim that it’s their ancestral land. Islamic nations don’t recognise Israel as a country. Most of the rest of the world does.
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Israel has become a defensive fortress with nukes, and is surrounded by five countries that hate it. No Islamic nation is strong enough to beat Israel. Skirmishes and shit fighting continues. Sometimes it gets serious. This week it got really serious.
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This fight will probably go on forever because of the religious significance of Jerusalem which neither the Israelis or Palestinians will ever give up claim to.
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So who’s right and who’s wrong? Probably neither. Probably both. Probably humans are just shit.
EDIT: I know there’s lots of missing parts here but honestly, the full story would be a semester of university worth of info. I tried to keep this ultra-digestible, without bias or conspiracy or finger pointing.
Thank you below for the corrections.
They’ve been fighting over this space for two millenia.
It’s been on and off and off and off and off and off and off and off and off and on again.
If you ask for the “Why” often enough, it always comes down to Antisemitism.
Israel wouldn’t exist if not for the unhinged antisemitism of German Nazis in the 1930/40s.
In the last 20 years, Israel found itself to need new settlements, with all the accompanying political changes and pressures. Why? - because many Jews from all over the world migrated there. Why? - Antisemitism in their home countries makes those a less habitable place than an Israel, even though it is continuously on the brink of a war.
And this doesn’t even touch the rampant antisemitism in the Muslim world that wants to drive the Jews into the ocean and doesn’t accept a state Israel under any circumstances.
US and UK politicians have large Israel supporting populations (whether Christian evangelists, hard right nationalists (“i-rony”) or just old fashioned Zionist Jews) so they have to kiss the ring and support Israel.
Germany has a forever guilt for the Holocaust so they support Israel.
India is run by Hindu nationalists who have a psychopathic hatred of Muslims so they also support Israel.
Anyone else who has any decency or inner feeling of justice will support Palestinians for being subject to decades of occupation and apartheid and know that it’s utterly hypocritical to support Ukraine for resisting Russian aggression while condemning Palestinians for doing the same.
Anyone who has any decency or feeling of inner justice will support innocent civilians regardless of their country of origin, and will condemn terrorist acts and war crimes regardless of who commited them.
True, but what often goes unreported is the massive scale at which Israel is killing Palestinians.
Check out this link for example: https://www.statista.com/chart/amp/16516/israeli-palestinian-casualties-by-in-gaza-and-the-west-bank/
Israel kills and injures roughly 20 Palestinians for each Israeli killed/injured by Palestine.
The current era of the conflict started in 2006, when the Hamas during a ceasefire stepped down from the government in favour of a less radical government to lead to a peace process. But then Israel bombed a residential building (they say by accident), killing 24 civilians including children and injuring many more.
That’s when the Hamas took back the power and restarted their attacks on Israel.
