Can someone explain for the non-religious folk?
Calling someone a “pastor” is a Protestant thing. You wouldn’t hear a Catholic call The Pope a pastor.
Vance, like a lot of tradcaths, is LARPing because the rituals look cool. Sorta like how Andrew Tate is a “Muslim” because he thinks it’s all about controlling women, but at the same time unabashedly drinks in public.
Like not all Catholics are obsessed with the Pope, but like I have merch of the man from my Vatican visit. I have some conservative Catholic family critical of the Pope’s more progressive views, but they would never talk like this.
Being from Europe some things may differ, but in all of my contact with catholics, including my own upbringing, you’d never adress any of the clergy as a pastor.
You might talk about them as pastor/shepherd, but again, that’s a weird thing to do as a practicing catholic, and will be rare even in academic discourse. Even catholics critical of the Pope are drilled in adressing him as The Pope, Il Papa (or similar), or very casually as the Holy Father.
Some edgy bishops might speak about the the papacy as shepherding the wayward, but that’s far out from accepted dogma, and entirely inappropriate in this situation.
Calling the Pope a pastor is very much an outsider perspective thing or actively disrespectful. Either way, it doesn’t make Vance look good.
Thanks for nothing. There are endless catholic bishops using the term pastor. See my other posts.
JFC who’s upvoting this nonsense? Are bishops catholic enough for you?
- https://www.usccb.org/news/2025/global-pastor-word-and-deed-pope-preached-mercy-outreach
- https://eu.greenbaypressgazette.com/story/news/local/2025/04/21/bishop-david-ricken-remembers-pope-francis-as-strong-pastor-leader/83195098007/
- https://www.wlky.com/article/louisville-archbishop-remembers-pope-francis-as-a-great-pastor/64542751
- Etc, etc, etc
The first headline: “Global pastor: In word and deed, pope preached mercy, outreach”
Not “a pastor.” Emphasizing global.
That second article, the journalist is the one using the term “pastor.” It does not appear in quotes.
Third one is closest to your point, but again the wording is very difference from Vance.
“You know, I think for Francis, the image of the good Shepherd was very, very important … to seek out the lost sheep. So I think he’s going to be remembered as a pastor.”
It’s kinda strange how eager some of y’all are to defend Vance from the allegation of speaking in a weird and off putting way.
Edit: Let’s try phone a friend (lapsed Catholic, invited me to services a few times for the sit kneel stand routine. The open air service I attended at the Vatican itself felt more Christlike to me, tbh)
“Pastor” is the term for the person that leads a church / church congregation. The general ranking of the hierarchy is:
- Deacon (not yet a priest, are usually all volunteer, but can do some ceremonies)
- Pastor or priest (ordained, usually employed by the Church itself, they’re allowed to hold all ceremonies and conduct mass or church service)
- Bishop (management level, must be 35, must be a priest for 5 years)
- Archbishop (oversee multiple churches and run the archdiocese; there’s 196 in the US. Wyoming has a single archdiocese)
- Cardinal (upper management, only cardinals are allowed to vote on new popes)
- Lastly - Pope. The man at the top, there’s only one.
J.D. Vance is Catholic, and referred to the Pope as a ‘pastor’. This would be like somebody saying “(insert American President) was a good mayor”.
Yea yea there’s some schismatics out there that claim to be the “actual” pope but there hasn’t really been an anti-pope since 1449.
JFC… Does nobody one this site use a search engine?
- https://www.usccb.org/news/2025/global-pastor-word-and-deed-pope-preached-mercy-outreach
- https://eu.greenbaypressgazette.com/story/news/local/2025/04/21/bishop-david-ricken-remembers-pope-francis-as-strong-pastor-leader/83195098007/
- https://www.wlky.com/article/louisville-archbishop-remembers-pope-francis-as-a-great-pastor/64542751
- Etc, etc, etc
I tend to place personal experience over random internet articles written by strangers. I attended catholic church weekly until 18 and went to catholic primary and secondary schools, and not once did I hear a member of the clergy referred to as ‘pastor’. Not once.
OP seems to not understand that the pastoral metaphor is common to all christianity because they are focused on “pastor” as a title. The job title of “pastor” is used by specific protestant denominations but the overarching metaphor of the faithful being a flock of sheep that God/Jesus/the faith tends to is common.
No - it’s more that this isn’t the way that Catholics talk, because Vance doesn’t give a shit about Catholicism and is only one because he thinks it gives him street cred.
Compelling testimony. He’s very aligned with the intellectualism of his patron Saint.
I totally believe he had an angry atheist Richard Dawkins phase.
I totally believe he had an angry atheist Richard Dawkins phase.
I feel that. I think it was a phase I needed, but man was some of it cringe. Chill, relaxed, “you do you, I’ll do me,” Atheism is soooo much better.
Are you joking or have you literally never stepped foot in any Roman Catholic space? The pastoral metaphor is common to pretty much every major branch of the faith.
Vance is attached to the “Rationalists” (note the capital “R” because it is a philosophy that isn’t rational) and absolutely was an edge lord regardless the phrase he used is entirely acceptable.
Pope’s are Catholic. Christian don’t have pope.
Years and years of Christianity and Catholics hating or just tolerating each other. I know first hand. My Dad Catholic, follows the Vatican and the pope word for word… tries to at least. My Mum raised Baptist and now, I have no idea. It’s all the same to me at the end of day. My family is a rainbow of all Christian/Catholic depending on the side of family.
Considering the thing thing that Protestants protested was catholic rule….
It would be awkward if they were.
I said this to my Dad before and drilled me how Catholics are not Christian and my Mum will say the same.
You’re probably right, my parents are crazy in my eyes. How they got married at all is a “miracle” lol
Christian is actually a fairly new all encompassing word. Like Muslim there’s actually a ton of different “Christians”
I’m not sure where you’re getting that information, Christian is not a new word. It’s literally biblical. You could make an argument that it’s a 1500s word but that’s a little spurious considering alternative forms such as Cristien and Cristen appear far earlier.
Edit: Christian, “1520s”, etymonline; Cristien, “c1300”, Middle English Compendium; Christen, “pre-1150”, OED (potentially referencing modern definition of baptising rather than religious follower, paywalled so can’t double check that one)
Fairly new meaning almost two millennia?
Early greek christians already called themselves Χρῑστῐᾱνός (christianos)
There are several different denominations within Christianity but they are all Christians.
The use of “pastor” is totally normal and not worth noting.
The “interesting” part is how this fascist refuses to talk about how he completely opposes the politics of the former pope.
that is under JD vanced REAPED his soul.
Vance sucks but there’s nothing wrong with his comment. The metaphor of the clergy having the role of pastor to their flock is incredibly common. The ancient Jews were largely herders so this isn’t an uncommon religious metaphor.
