toxic masculinity, tons of people aware of the bad things but most people think its taboo for men to think about their social reformation.
Some of my more well versed lady friends basically describe it like “the women can’t do all the social reformation, men gotta do their part too”
Would be nice to make this thread into a list of resources, like groups, YouTube channels, websites, books, whatever.
It would be very helpful to define these things for people too I think, I don’t think there is a name for men’s social revolution yet, or at least one that is well known.
Work first on being a good human.
That will make you a good (and attractive) man or woman.
The archaic concept of masculinity or femininity itself is wretched.
People worry far too much about what others think of them and what mold they should fit into. Be yourself. Be a good, caring, empathetic person with convictions and passions and hobbies. Become proficient in one or more things so others find you interesting. Learn how to do things without the aid of technology. Read books. Travel as far as you can. Give a shit about yourself and your community.
If you’re struggling to fit a mold that society is telling you you should fit into, you’re already lost. That doesn’t mean you can’t find yourself. It means that mold probably isn’t right for you. And there is nothing wrong with that. If others have a problem with you not being what they expect, that’s their issue to resolve. The sooner you’re able to let go of societal concepts, the more free you’ll be to be the best version of you.
Don’t confuse being a good man and being a good person. It’s the same thing. There is nothing you can do to become more of a man that won’t make you more of a person.
People worry far too much about what others think of them and what mold they should fit into.
Become proficient in one or more things so others find you interesting.
No offense, cause I think your message is good overall, but you contradict yourself in the same paragraph.
Trying to learn things so others will like you more isn’t a great way to do it. I know because I tried that. My self-love became conditional with that mindset, and there was always something else I could come up with I had to learn or change about myself before I could be lovable.
My old therapist called me out on it. He said there’s nothing wrong with pushing yourself to improve, but if you don’t balance that with unconditional self love it will simply lead to depression.
Not worrying about how others perceive you and having something interesting to share with others is not contradictory.
I don’t have to like you or agree with you to listen to something you feel passionate about to share. Have you heard of YouTube?
If you’re weird and you have nothing interesting to share, if you lack the confidence to speak with others, then I’m not very likely to give you much attention.
Learning something “so others will like you” is exactly what I’m suggest you do not do. You should learn something so that you have personal confidence in something. The more you become proficient in something, the more confident you’ll become overall. Accomplishing goals and overcoming obstacles breeds confidence. It may help your social interactions if that thing is less niche and more universal but not exclusively.
This is why people ask others what they do for a living. They want to hear you speak about something they presume you’re passionate about. There’s a hope to engage in a conversation or to learn something from you. If you have some niche hobby or job and you’re good at it, people will listen to you. You may even find people come up to you at a party to hear more about what you feel so strongly about.
Don’t ever do something solely because you think it will make others like you more. If you’re not doing it for yourself, you’re not able to put all of yourself into it. You’ll never own that thing. You’ll just be renting it for others.
It was the “so others find you interesting” part I was reacting to. It sounds like that’s not what you meant, so don’t worry about it.
The archaic concept of masculinity or femininity itself is wretched.
That works for me, but some people really like the construct of gender. Transpeople just being the most visible case.
If you want to get really into sports and car mechanics, or really into makeup and pastels that’s fine. Just don’t grow the corresponding bad emotional self-care or inauthentic relationships.
The Lord of the Rings. Aragorn is a perfect example of positive masculinity. Strong, brave, a good leader, emotionally available and connected to all his friends. Sam and Frodo are also very positive. Books and films are good. Cinema Therapy YouTube channel has a few episodes on the lord of the rings and they are all good watches. The Aragorn one covers positive masculinity I think.
Aragorn also abandoned his duties for decades because he was overwhelmed with feelings of inadequacy. No matter how good you are, it is also ok to forgive yourself for not being perfect or having genetic skeletons in your closet.
“Masculinity is not the opposite of femininity, but rather the opposite of boyish immaturity.”
IMO “developing” “masculinity”—“proper” or otherwise—is a fool’s errand. I don’t much care what various & sundry people think “masculinity” is or isn’t, and I’m not much interested in meeting the performance criteria of their varied & contradictory masculinities. I don’t hang out with the kinds of people who gatekeep gender.
Toxic masculinity (femininity) are negative behaviours associated with men (women), but anyone of any gender can have toxic masculine traits / toxic feminine traits. They are labelled toxic masculinity (femininity) to emphasize that men (women) should be particularly cautious about developing such traits. Learning how to recognize such traits in oneself is important. No gender is gatekept here – the only gatekeeping is “don’t be toxic.”
That said, the terminology is provocative, and it’s the kind of thing which drives people away from the left, so we should really rebrand it.
I think it would be great if more men read (or just read summaries of) basic feminist texts, especially Judith Butler and people of her ilk. Before I realised I wasn’t a man they helped me. I think the deconstruction of gender that feminism offers serve men just as much as women - it made masculinity feel like less of a prison (nevermind that I ultimately largely moved more feminine).
I remember reading authors like John Stoltenberg, the aforementioned Judith Butler, and some perspectives of feminism/masculinity in a working class context.
I think too many people treat masculinity as specific things. This was a quote I stumbled upon just now.
“Masculinity is not the opposite of femininity, but rather the opposite of boyish immaturity”
Like flowers as a gift for example, everyone can enjoy this, the semantics of how it is enjoyed is different for different people.
