My personal suspicion is he was a high school libertarian who then realized it was not what he thought. I called myself a libertarian in high school for a short time before I realized what that group was really about (basically freedom to hate, not freedom to love, unless it’s loving children). I now call myself an anarchist.
At the end of the day, it doesn’t really matter. He was a kid who lost his life probably doing something he was convinced was important, as so many kids do. Is he better or worse than the kids who were told that people in Iraq were evil and a threat to America?
Trump, and the whole MAGA movement, have done so much to erode trust in our institutions. The fact someone felt the need to put everything on the line for their (likely futile) attempt to stop it sucks. Even in success it likely would have failed. It would have galvanized support for that faction and someone else would have taken up the position. We need something more powerful than a bullet to kill the movement.
libertarian in high school for a short time before I realized what that group was really about (basically freedom to hate, not freedom to love, unless it’s loving children)
?? That’s… exactly the opposite of libertarianism. Look at the Libertarian Party nominee for 2024, he’s a gay man who is extremely supportive of the trans community and came from the left. That’s just about the opposite of the caricature you’ve painted.
I wonder if by “libertarian” you mean the “libertarian” wing of the Republican Party? Because those aren’t libertarians at all, they’re just conservatives who aren’t as openly against civil rights. They’re the sorts that somehow justify supporting Trump, which makes absolutely no sense to someone with libertarian values (again, see how Trump was booed at the Libertarian National Convention).
Libertarians believe in the non-aggression principle (i.e. they just want to leave you alone), and someone who attempts to assassinate a presidential candidate certainly doesn’t meet that bar. They believe in same sex marriage (and probably non-monogomous marriage), access to recreational drugs, no foreign military involvement, increased legal immigration, fiscal responsibility, etc.
We need something more powerful than a bullet to kill the movement.
Exactly. We need to disseminate truth. Show people how Trump’s policies have failed and will fail. Expose his lies, and demonstrate how alternatives are better. Unfortunately, Biden isn’t the right candidate to spread that message. I am looking at Chase Oliver (Libertarian Party candidate) to spread that message, but unfortunately the LP is having some internal issues so he may be limited in his reach.
What we need is a champion for liberty that’s willing to call out BS on both sides of the aisle, not in a “both sides” sense, but by calling out unique issues with both major parties. That push needs to be strong enough to make concrete steps toward solving the roots of the problem, such as:
- alternative voting systems - personal preference for STAR or Approval, but Ranked Choice works
- end gerrymandering - personal preference for proportional representation within the states, but independent commissions work
- reform political debates - any candidate who is on enough ballots to mathematically win should be invited to at least the first debate
- reform campaign funding - massive fines for inaccurate ads, and perhaps ban ads altogether except for ads for debates
Those have at least some chance at fixing things.
That’s… exactly the opposite of libertarianism.
American libertarianism got co-opted by white nationalism way back in the 1930s, under Ludwig Von Mises and Murray Rothbard.
Look at the Libertarian Party nominee for 2024, he’s a gay man who is extremely supportive of the trans community and came from the left.
Kathy Glass won the Texas Libertarian Gubernatorial nomination in 2010 and 2014. She’s an outspoken white supremacist with deep Trump sympathies. She abandoned the party in 2016 to go follow Trump, and she took a large chunk of the party base with her.
Libertarians believe in the non-aggression principle
They espouse it. But when you get into what qualifies as “aggression”, everything from migration to miscegenation can qualify. Thomas Sowell, a staunch libertarian economist, was a full throated supporter of the Iraq War on the grounds that Saddam helped perpetrate 9/11, evidence to the contrary be damned. Notorious Libertarian-Republican Ron Paul claimed that individuals infected with AIDS “victimizes innocent citizens by forcing them to pay for care", in a newsletter that argued for the criminalization of gay sex.
I am looking at Chase Oliver (Libertarian Party candidate) to spread that message, but unfortunately the LP is having some internal issues so he may be limited in his reach.
That’s by design. The LP is shot-through with the worst strains of American bigotry and xenophobia intentionally. They’re a common injection point for far-right conspiracies and a testing ground for ultra-nationalist ideology. Once you wrap an idea under the cover of free markets and individual liberties, you can smuggle it into the mainstream GOP and then on to “centrist” American politics.
Everything from Trump’s Big Beautiful Wall to Lynne Cheney’s trade war with China to JD Vance’s Project 2025 can trace their roots back to libertarian academia.
she took a large chunk of the party base with her.
Good riddance.
The issue with libertarians is that they can never agree on anything. Chase Oliver, for example, won the presidential nomination, yet the Colorado Libertarian Party nominated RFK instead. The Mises Caucus took over the party, their preferred candidate lost, and some “libertarians” across the country are butthurt about that.
It’s an exciting third party to watch, and their platform doesn’t even align with my own ideals. I’m registered with my state’s Libertarian Party, but that’s because they’re the biggest third party nationally, and I care more about third parties getting recognition than about the specific platform they espouse (and I’m probably closer to my state’s LP platform than any other party, so that helps).
That’s why people talk about the difference between big-l Libertarians (i.e. members of the party) and small-l libertarians (those who consider themselves ideologically libertarian). White supremacy is absolutely anti-libertarian, as is any other form of hate, and I think pretty much all small-l libertarians and most big-l Libertarians would agree with that statement.
Thomas Sowell, a staunch libertarian economist
Pfft, he’s not libertarian. I respect him, but he’s a conservative through and through. My conservative grandfather (lifelong GOP member) would send us grandkids snippets from his columns. He’s somewhat libertarian on economics, but conservative on everything else.
IMO, anyone who supported the Iraq war cannot call themselves libertarian. Libertarians do not support wars of aggression, full stop. Libertarians should absolutely be against supporting Israel in Gaza, for example. Saddam had absolutely nothing to do with 9/11, and even if he did, invading Iraq would not be justifiable. There’s a reason the Libertarian Party uses the porcupine as its mascot, and it’s because they’re not aggressive at all and instead have very strong defenses (quills).
Notorious Libertarian-Republican Ron Paul claimed that individuals infected with AIDS “victimizes innocent citizens by forcing them to pay for care", in a newsletter that argued for the criminalization of gay sex.
Ron Paul is a lot closer, but only on foreign policy and fiscal matters, not on social issues. I can absolutely understand his premise (people with AIDS may use more medical resources than those without), but the conclusion is anti-libertarian. The libertarian answer here would be to allow care providers and insurance companies to adjust their prices based on things like sexual orientation if it adds a significant financial risk. Libertarians will never consider “the ends justifies the means” as a valid argument because civil liberties always come first.
Ron Paul got me excited about libertarianism because he was the only one with a national media presence saying things I agreed with, namely that we should close foreign bases and stop bombing people. I then found Penn Jillette, and his brand of libertarianism sat much better with me.
They’re a common injection point for far-right conspiracies and a testing ground for ultra-nationalist ideology.
I don’t think that’s fair. I think it’s more fair to say that those on the far-right have gotten booted from everywhere else and the Libertarian Party is radically inclusive. If you want to run for President, all you need to do is join a Libertarian Party somewhere or make a donation, and convince a delegate to submit your name. That’s why RFK was nominated at the National Convention (someone entered his name, with his permission), but he lost in the first round. And IMO, that’s how it should be.
Look at Trump speaking at the LP, he was essentially laughed out, especially when he tried to use the “if you want to win, vote for me” card, and his follow up of “good luck with your 3% of the vote.” Trump has no roots in libertarianism, he just has a vocal fanbase, and some claim to be libertarian. It’s like the hacker group Anonymous, anyone can claim to be them, but that doesn’t mean actions by one member are condoned by another.
Here’s a leftist interviewing Larry Sharpe, a prominent libertarian who ran for governor of NY. In it, he goes through and details a lot of misconceptions people have about libertarianism, one of my favorite was when he called out Reason magazine as being “Republicans who hate Trump,” which IMO is pretty accurate.
The libertarian ideal isn’t bad, but like you said it has internal issues where a significant portion are bad. Anyway, libertarianism doesn’t generally want to protect people. That’s why I prefer anarchism. Freedom for the individual and protections against corporations and other powers. Libertarians generally want “freedom” to be ruled by the elite, because they don’t want to put in controls over them.
LIbertarians are massive fans of negative rights, but not positive rights (negative = can’t do X, positive = must do X). So libertarians would be absolutely in favor of things like worker protections (e.g. can’t fire someone for striking), not in favor of things like universal healthcare (e.g. can’t compel a doctor to provide care), and a bit mixed on entitlements (most see cash entitlements as better than programs, but prefer no entitlements whatsoever).
I like the idea of anarchism, I just don’t think it’ll work in practice. There will always be people that want to seize power, so I think it’s more likely to devolve into feudalism than for society to push against those powerful factions. People just… really suck at avoiding tribalism. So I believe in limited government that prevents any one group from getting too much power, and also provides a minimal safety net to prevent effective slavery.
