You are viewing a single thread.
View all comments View context
2 points

That’s not actually true, modern architecture works much closer to the way functional languages work https://queue.acm.org/detail.cfm?id=3212479

permalink
report
parent
reply
2 points
*

Modern C compilers are a fascinating blend of functional and imperative, that’s true; and I didn’t say that C is “close to how the modern architectures work”. However, mainstream modern architectures are almost always engineered with C in mind primarily, and this is also acknowledged in the article you’ve linked. Rust, having a lot of similarities to C in terms of its underlying memory model, calling conventions, and control flow primitives, can often benefit from those hardware patterns and optimizations in a way that’s more difficult to replicate with a functional language (especially so given most of them are GC-d due to their memory model). The closest I’ve seen in terms of easy-to-write-quick-code is OCaml, but even there the fast paths are often written in a very much imperative style. Idris2 also seems promising if they manage to get a GC-less mode working. Maybe also Roc, but I’ve not taken a look at it yet.

Note that I write all of this as someone spending a lot of their work time programming in a functional language (Haskell), with Rust being mostly for hobby stuff. It just always surprises me how much easier it is to write fast code in Rust, and yet also how much of my Haskell intuition was applicable when I was learning it.

permalink
report
parent
reply
1 point

Typically this is true, but it’s certainly possible to get comparable performance with functional style. Carp, which I linked above, basically uses the same approach to memory management as Rust. It doesn’t rely on GC.

I also find that for most cases it really doesn’t matter all that much unless you’re in a specific domain like writing drivers, making a game engine, etc. Computers are plenty fast nowadays, and ergonomics tend to be more important than raw performance.

permalink
report
parent
reply
2 points

Typically this is true, but it’s certainly possible to get comparable performance with functional style

It’s possible, but you have to specifically write code that’s fast, rather than idiomatic or ergonomic, and you have to know what you’re doing. At that point, you may have been better off writing it in something else. I feel like OCaml is good at this because it allows you to write abstractions and main control flow in a functional way and hot paths in an imperative way without switching language, but so is Rust.

Carp, which I linked above, basically uses the same approach to memory management as Rust. It doesn’t rely on GC.

I’ll take a look, thanks!

I also find that for most cases it really doesn’t matter all that much unless you’re in a specific domain like writing drivers, making a game engine, etc. Computers are plenty fast nowadays, and ergonomics tend to be more important than raw performance.

I mostly agree with you, e.g. Haskell and Clojure, despite being “slow”, are plenty fast for what they’re used for. On the other hand, I’m very much annoyed when “user-facing” software takes way too long to load or do simple tasks. Java in particular is pretty bad at this: JOSM (Java OpenStreetMap editor) takes longer to load than my entire desktop startup, including a window manager and browser. Unfortunately it’s also the best editor around, so I pretty much have to use it to edit OSM, but it still annoys me to no end. Unnecessary computations, IO inefficiencies and layers of wrapping also affect the power consumption quite noticeably.

permalink
report
parent
reply

Programmer Humor

!programmerhumor@lemmy.ml

Create post

Post funny things about programming here! (Or just rant about your favourite programming language.)

Rules:

  • Posts must be relevant to programming, programmers, or computer science.
  • No NSFW content.
  • Jokes must be in good taste. No hate speech, bigotry, etc.

Community stats

  • 5.4K

    Monthly active users

  • 888

    Posts

  • 9K

    Comments

Community moderators