I’ll admit, I’m pretty frustrated right now lol. me and my doctor have been trying to submit a referral to a specialist but for the last several weeks, when i call them, they still haven’t gotten it yet. they told me it’s because they only have one fax machine so it refuses any incoming faxes if it’s in the middle of printing a different one.

my problem is, why haven’t we come up with a more modern and secure way of sending medical files?!?! am i crazy for thinking this is a super unprofessional and unnecessary barrier to care?

luckily I’m mobile enough to drive a physical copy to their location, but not everybody who needs to see this type of doctor can do that, nor should they have to.

You are viewing a single thread.
View all comments View context
87 points
*

Speaking as someone who works directly in the field: this is just plain factually incorrect. Encrypted email is compliant with patient privacy regulations in the US.

The issue is entirely cultural. Faxes are embedded in many workflows across the industry and people are resistant to change in general. They use faxes because it’s what they’re used to. Faxes are worse in nearly every way than other regulatory-compliant means of communication outside of “this is what we’re used to and already setup to do.”

I am actively working on projects that involve taking fax machines away from clinicians and backend administrators. There are literally zero technical or regulatory hurdles; the difficulty is entirely political.

permalink
report
parent
reply
22 points

I work with healthcare software so I can echo most of what you’re saying.

The thing is the lowest common denominator is a fax (usually a fax server that creates a PDF or TIFF of what comes over the wire), so that’s what people go with. It’s the interoperability between different systems that’s the problem. There’s no one standard…except for faxes.

permalink
report
parent
reply
8 points
*

There’s no one standard…except for faxes.

HL7 and FHIR have been around for decades. Exchanging data is actually the easy part.

The problem is typically more on the business logic side of things. Good example is the fact that matching a patient to a particular record between facilities is a much harder problem than people realize because there are so many ways to implement patient identifiers differently and for whoever inputs a record to screw up entry. Another is the fact that sex/gender codes can be implemented wildly differently between facilities. Matching data between systems is the really hard part.

(I used to do HL7 integration, but have since moved more to the systems side of things).

permalink
report
parent
reply
4 points

I work in a particularly niche area (home infusion/home medical equipment) and while HL7 and FHIR are indeed things, practically no software that was built for those lines of business had any sort of module for that. We have a FHIR interface now and…no one uses it. They prefer faxes.

permalink
report
parent
reply
1 point

EDI as well

permalink
report
parent
reply
3 points

I feel this - I’m often on the other end working with data from clinicians in the field for massive studies. The forms that come in can have an infinite number of possibilities just for noting sex. Enough so that our semantic layer needs a human reviewer because we keep finding new ways field clinicians have of noting this. Now imagine that over the whole gamut of identifiers.

tl:dr - Humans are almost always the problem in data harmonization.

permalink
report
parent
reply
7 points
*

“embedded in many workflows”

Key statement right there.

And once people see what that really means, and what it would take to move past it (including time, cost, and risk), they may start to understand. You’re dealing with it first hand, so you know what’s involved.

It became the de facto way to send stuff with high confidence it went to the right place. Then tech addressed the paper-to-paper over one phone line issue with modem banks into a fax server. So all the same fundamental comm tech (so fully backwards-compatible), but a better solution for the company with that infrastructure. Such a company has little motivation to completely change to something new, since they’d have to retain this for anyone that hasn’t switched. Chicken-and-egg problem, that’s slowly moving forward.

It’ll be a long time before it’s gone completely. Perhaps in 20 years, but I suspect fax will still be around as a fallback/compatibility.

permalink
report
parent
reply
4 points

Such a company has little motivation to completely change to something new, since they’d have to retain this for anyone that hasn’t switched.

They’ve had motivation since the HITECH Act passed in 2009. Medicare/Medicaid compensation is increasingly directly tied to real adoption of modern electronic records, availability, and interoperability. Most healthcare orgs rely heavily on Medicare/Medicaid revenue, so that’s a big, big deal.

You’re dealing with it first hand, so you know what’s involved.

I do. Which is why I’m actively and aggressively removing fax machines from our environment. Efaxing (e.g., fax-to-email gateways) will stick around for back-compatibility purposes with outside organizations, but the overall industry trend is to do everything you can to minimize the footprint of fax machines because they’ve traditionally been used in ways that will cost the company serious revenue if they cause you to miss CMS measures.

permalink
report
parent
reply
1 point

We need to try and bankrupt any company that produces fax machines.

The industry will need to adapt once fax machines aren’t produced anymore.

permalink
report
parent
reply
1 point

Unfortunately, supply and demand dictates that new manufacturers will pop up in place

permalink
report
parent
reply

You’re both right.

Faxes in the eyes of the law are secure, for any privileged or confidential info. So are secured emails, last I checked.

permalink
report
parent
reply
4 points
*

To be clear, this is specifically what I was calling incorrect:

An email, even an encrypted one, is not.

Faxes are one compliant means of electronic communication. They’re just not the only one. Secure email is fine.

permalink
report
parent
reply
1 point

And just try to get regular people to use email encryption. Yes, it could be signed to show that it hasn’t been altered, but then most users can’t even figure out where a file has been saved.
So they use faxes.

Here (not US) they’ve tried implementing a dedicated “secure email platform” for medical professionals so that they can exchange patient data. It’s both progress and kind of idiotic, but it’s not very widely used (because now, they have yet another email address to manage, on top of the six they already have to use).

permalink
report
parent
reply
1 point

Secure email is nearly always implemented as a portal-based system in practice. It’s also typically only used for one-off exchanges. It’s not our first-line method of communication, but it gets used within the facility literally every day.

HIE portals are more commonly used for provider-to-provider exchange that doesn’t justify full data integration.

At any rate, the fundamental point stands: regulatory compliance has absolutely nothing to do with why faxes are still in use in the industry.

permalink
report
parent
reply

No Stupid Questions

!nostupidquestions@lemmy.world

Create post

No such thing. Ask away!

!nostupidquestions is a community dedicated to being helpful and answering each others’ questions on various topics.

The rules for posting and commenting, besides the rules defined here for lemmy.world, are as follows:

Rules (interactive)


Rule 1- All posts must be legitimate questions. All post titles must include a question.

All posts must be legitimate questions, and all post titles must include a question. Questions that are joke or trolling questions, memes, song lyrics as title, etc. are not allowed here. See Rule 6 for all exceptions.



Rule 2- Your question subject cannot be illegal or NSFW material.

Your question subject cannot be illegal or NSFW material. You will be warned first, banned second.



Rule 3- Do not seek mental, medical and professional help here.

Do not seek mental, medical and professional help here. Breaking this rule will not get you or your post removed, but it will put you at risk, and possibly in danger.



Rule 4- No self promotion or upvote-farming of any kind.

That’s it.



Rule 5- No baiting or sealioning or promoting an agenda.

Questions which, instead of being of an innocuous nature, are specifically intended (based on reports and in the opinion of our crack moderation team) to bait users into ideological wars on charged political topics will be removed and the authors warned - or banned - depending on severity.



Rule 6- Regarding META posts and joke questions.

Provided it is about the community itself, you may post non-question posts using the [META] tag on your post title.

On fridays, you are allowed to post meme and troll questions, on the condition that it’s in text format only, and conforms with our other rules. These posts MUST include the [NSQ Friday] tag in their title.

If you post a serious question on friday and are looking only for legitimate answers, then please include the [Serious] tag on your post. Irrelevant replies will then be removed by moderators.



Rule 7- You can't intentionally annoy, mock, or harass other members.

If you intentionally annoy, mock, harass, or discriminate against any individual member, you will be removed.

Likewise, if you are a member, sympathiser or a resemblant of a movement that is known to largely hate, mock, discriminate against, and/or want to take lives of a group of people, and you were provably vocal about your hate, then you will be banned on sight.



Rule 8- All comments should try to stay relevant to their parent content.

Rule 9- Reposts from other platforms are not allowed.

Let everyone have their own content.



Rule 10- Majority of bots aren't allowed to participate here.

Credits

Our breathtaking icon was bestowed upon us by @Cevilia!

The greatest banner of all time: by @TheOneWithTheHair!

Community stats

  • 8.9K

    Monthly active users

  • 1.8K

    Posts

  • 49K

    Comments