Ahhh duck off, if it comes to it, I’ll support 1 genocide over 2,3, or 10, if that’s the choice I have. I chose my solution in that trolley problem.
It is kinda dumb we can’t trust each other to all just vote third party. I’ll shut up because there are a million reasons it won’t work and giving it wind is the last thing I want. But this system is so fucked that we either get placeholder or fascist. Yay, American democracy.
The impact of third parties on American politics extends far beyond their capacity to attract votes. Minor parties, historically, have been a source of important policy innovations. Women’s suffrage, the graduated income tax, and the direct election of senators, to name a few, were all issues that third parties espoused first.
- Rosenstone, Behr and Lazarus
The problem is first-past-the-post always leads to strategic voting, which leads to eliminating 3rd parties. And, once you have only 2 viable parties, they benefit immensely from FPTP, so they’re unlikely to ever get rid of it.
Unfortunately, game theory was invented in the 1940s, and the USA was invented in the 1770s, so the founding fathers couldn’t make use of game theory to work out a good electoral system. Oh, and having to compromise with the slave-holding states and devising an electoral system that gave them power turns out to have had bad effects down the line. Who knew!?
Note that “third party” isn’t automatically better, given these third parties. I wager a Green Party minded person would be incensed if libertarians won, for example.
I’ll also say that the current crop of third party candidates are impractically minded, so they wouldn’t be the sorts of folks I’d want in charge anyway.
However, if they became a viable path to office (ranked choice voting), I bet they’d get better quality candidates running with them instead of compromising and running as D or R.
I keep saying it but it is one big Prisoner’s Dilemma. The best next steps that can realistically happen are
We vote in grandpa Joe.
All these folks that are single issue Democrats FIGHT AND CHANGE THE SYSTEM. If you are an actual leftist, or just a Democrat, set the field for a fight you can actually win, instead of handing it to trump then fighting uphill with cement shoes. If it is a narrow miss, you have something to point at and go “look how bad we need third party options and a system that enables them!”
(funfact, part 2 can not happen under he other guy) Losing the whole fight because you want everything to be perfect overnight is pathetic. Causes move slow nomatter how much the spastic activist brain wants everything perfect and right now. You also don’t bring anyone to your cause by being toxic about it.
Either candidate is voting for genocide, and they’re the only viable options. So your comment is pointless.
I continue to be astounded by this argument. In what world would trump be less genocidey? Yeah I get it fuck Biden, I don’t like it either, yes it would be great if we had better candidates. We don’t though, we still need to do more work on that front, it sucks, but for fuck sake don’t risk letting trump win. Voting for Biden isn’t voting for genocide it’s voting against it getting even worse than it already is
The worst way to push Biden on genocide is to promise you’ll vote for him no matter what.
That’s a long way of saying you’re voting for genocide.
That’s a long way of saying you don’t understand politics.
The worst way to push Biden on genocide is to promise you’ll vote for him no matter what.
And the best way to end genocide is to do nothing. Because history is full of examples where doing nothing created change.
Right?
That’s rather aggressive. Are you always upset at people who draw the line at genocide?
I’m not going to PMs, you can have this conversation in public.
The worst way to convince Biden to stop a genocide is to promise you’ll vote for him no matter what.
And the worst way to stop genocide is to let the ‘finish the job’ candidate win.
Don’t pull that virtue signalling bullshit with me, I’ve had this conversation with genocide enablers many times. I hate what Biden is doing, but I’m not stupid enough to think that virtue signalling will do anything to help the people that trump wants to murder at home and abroad.
You’re right. If the dems split their vote and Trump wins he will definitely behave in a calm and moral fashion. It’s not like Trump is a vindictive and shortsighted tyrant. He’s an ethical, scholarly gentleman. He never behaves impulsively or in a cruel and mean spirited way. And if there’s one thing Trump is passionate about, it’s protecting the weak and downtrodden. He believes in the equality of all nations, and doesn’t consider any of them to be shit holes. And he’s definitely not recently on record saying that Israel should just go in and “finish the job”.
If you vote for anyone other than the Dems in this election, you’re as good as voting for Trump, which is voting for genocide and losing your democracy. I fucking hate what’s happening in Palestine. I’m also realistic enough to see that you’ll lose your country if you don’t protect it.
Your assumption assumes a preference between two candidates. I have no preference.
If you have no preference between a self avowed dictator and a milquetoast politician, I question if your head is roundish or if there’s a large flat spot where part of your head was caved in.
Because you can’t be naturally so stupid to be ambivalent to the country falling to a fascist who wants to genocide multiple groups, can you?
The question is do you have a preference in being able to express potential future preferences?
As bad as it has been, the R team went absurdly beyond in late 2020 with respect to refusing to recognize the result of an election, trying to use fake electors, by pushing to reject the certification of the electors, and a lot of people campaigning for board of elections to “ensure Republican victories”.
They are openly working to establish a China-like system where there’s only one viable “party”.
This would only make sense if Trump was less pro-Israel than Biden. He’s not. He wants Netanyahu to “finish the job” exterminating Palestinians. I’m sorry neither candidate is great on your single-issue voting mentality, but staying home or voting Trump will literally make life worse for both Palestinians and Ukrainians. (As well as Americans.)
If it’s such a drastic difference, Palestinian groups would be endorsing a candidate. They did in 2020. They’re not now.
The way our system works. You not voting means you voted for whoever ends up winning. GJ
In lieu of a better candidate, it makes sense to vote for the least worst one available, since one of those two will be the next president.
Wait… How is the Angry Creamsicle any better than Biden on the Israel issues? Didn’t Baby Fingers Trump move the American Embassy to Jerusalem (and proclaimed it the capital of Israel)?
I’d love to understand why Biden is somehow worse than Dangerous Donald with respect to their views of Israel and Palestine? As a laymen, I only see two sides of the same coin. And frankly, that is not enough motivation for me to allow Adolf Twitler to be president a second time.
Yeah, that was Clinton’s plan. Trump just got to it first.
There’s no difference between them. If you think there is, go ahead and convince Palestinian groups. They’re not endorsing either nazi.
You haven’t answered my question. I bet you can’t, and won’t. You’ll continue to spew your (il)logical fallacies and do nothing more than pollute any meaningful conversation with your bullshit rhetoric. Go back to Reddit where you belong. The adults are talking here.
Cause the other option totally isn’t…
Voting third party is voting for the other guy, btw. (System sucks but we can’t change it overnight and a full shift of the democrat voters is a prisoners dilemma…I’ll let you figure out why that is bad)
I understand you THINK that is the case. You do not understand first-past-the-post voting, you don’t understand electoral college, you don’t understand the mentality of the MAJORITY of out-of-touch voters that don’t even know what left and right mean. You lack the information needed to effectively champion your alleged cause and you are so bad at it that you are making enemies of the people that would rather stand with you in changing the system so we DO have third parties and your “solution” isn’t just an ignorant person’s pipedream.
Its a mistake with no real world upside.
Voting third party is the ultimate virtue signaling.
