Maybe EVs are not a comprehensive climate solution??

You are viewing a single thread.
View all comments View context
7 points

What do you think the average 10 year old car has done to that point? Battery degradation is hugely overrated and stories are based on tech already left behind.

The actual problem for the used car market is the opposite: EVs live much longer than traditional cars and thus don’t lose their worth that rapidly, while on the other hand new cars still see a fast development cycle while also getting cheaper.

So no, it’s not a problem of used EVs per se and that their expensive batteries are allegedly dying. It’s the fact that a new EV just a couple of years later is ahead 1-2 generations and also cheaper.

permalink
report
parent
reply
4 points

My car is 10 years old. It has one of the worst Ford engines ever made and it still drives flawlessly, everything is cheap to repair and maintain. It has a radio and climate control nothing more. It’s also fairly fuel efficient.

Nothing new and improved ever gets cheaper over time, that’s not how it works. Manufacturers thread the waters with increased prices and if people are willing to pay that price it becomes the new baseline. That’s why flagship smart phones went from $400 to $600 to $800 to $1,000 and now $1,200. That’s why small lower class cars went from $15,000 to $22,000 new. That’s why the new PS5 pro cost $700, etc.

Ideally the price curve of a product starts inflated, drops rapidly and then plateaus at the actual free market value of the product. EVs lasting longer than combustion engine cars (which we have zero empirical evidence by the way) and therefore staying at an inflated price point for longer, benefits nobody but the manufacturer.

I would love to buy a 7 year old EV for $8000 used and have it be my daily car for another 3-4 years. But right now something like that doesn’t exist, at least not in the form of a normal sized hatchback.

And rapid development is horrible for maintainability. With billions of possible part combinations even within a single manufacturers car class it becomes impossible for a professional mechanic to repair yet alone diagnose a problem without OEM tools. People have to finally step back from their desire for individualism and accept that for the greater good a unified technical design composition is superior. At least car manufacturers caught up on that, because nowadays cars come with a bunch of features pre-installed but not unlocked in the software, that way at least from a technical standpoint the cars are equal to one another and become simpler to maintain. But the customer still has to foot the bill for all features, driving the price up even more.

EVs have chosen an absolute shit time to emerge. If this change would have happenend in the early 2000s when the car market was relatively stable design wise we wouldn’t have any of those problems. Combustion and electric engines would have been able to coexist like manuals and automatics, or diesel and petrol.

permalink
report
parent
reply
0 points
*

Whole lotta citations needed. Here’s mine:

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/who-wants-to-buy-30-000-used-teslas-from-hertz.html

The high-voltage battery pack is damaged and could cause extreme safety concerns,” a Tesla technician texted him. Because the hole was “exterior damage,” it wasn’t covered by the warranty, which meant a $13,078.58 repair bill.

https://www.teslaownersonline.com/threads/tesla-from-hertz.31723/

permalink
report
parent
reply
3 points
*

Batteries losing more than 20-25% of their capacity in 150.000km had a defect in production already. You can find similiar numbers in any OEM’s warranty. So a non-defective battery will provide at least 80% of its capacity at 150.000km. The average car manages about 250.000km over their life-time of about 15 years (reference numbers from the US, so the most pessimistic view as barely anyone else in the world is matching those distances).

You are not completely wrong. Used batteries will be a problem… somewhere far down the road because electric vehicles are expected to easily manage 800.000km or more (less moving/wear parts).

But we are not there yet. The whole EV market isn’t old enough to have produced these long-lived vehicles and we are back at my original point. Today it’s not about battery degradation but about EVs not getting old fast enough to already have established a robust used market. In fact the first big batch of EVs on the used market is often not expected for another 2 years (see here for example, and that’s again rather new vehicles because of a loophole for leased cars in the EU).

In short: There isn’t a huge used EV market yet and (more importantly) the demand is stifled by battery degradation fairy tales not relevant (EVs old enough for this basically don’t exist yet) and political mismanagement subsidising new EVs.

permalink
report
parent
reply

Fuck Cars

!fuckcars@lemmy.world

Create post

A place to discuss problems of car centric infrastructure or how it hurts us all. Let’s explore the bad world of Cars!

Rules

1. Be Civil

You may not agree on ideas, but please do not be needlessly rude or insulting to other people in this community.

2. No hate speech

Don’t discriminate or disparage people on the basis of sex, gender, race, ethnicity, nationality, religion, or sexuality.

3. Don't harass people

Don’t follow people you disagree with into multiple threads or into PMs to insult, disparage, or otherwise attack them. And certainly don’t doxx any non-public figures.

4. Stay on topic

This community is about cars, their externalities in society, car-dependency, and solutions to these.

5. No reposts

Do not repost content that has already been posted in this community.

Moderator discretion will be used to judge reports with regard to the above rules.

Posting Guidelines

In the absence of a flair system on lemmy yet, let’s try to make it easier to scan through posts by type in here by using tags:

  • [meta] for discussions/suggestions about this community itself
  • [article] for news articles
  • [blog] for any blog-style content
  • [video] for video resources
  • [academic] for academic studies and sources
  • [discussion] for text post questions, rants, and/or discussions
  • [meme] for memes
  • [image] for any non-meme images
  • [misc] for anything that doesn’t fall cleanly into any of the other categories

Recommended communities:

Community stats

  • 4.5K

    Monthly active users

  • 542

    Posts

  • 9.2K

    Comments