Comment by pyre@lemmy.world on Biology rule

I cringe every time I hear another guy refer to women like this

males and females is still psychotic if you’re not specifically talking science like biology, statistics, etc. adjectives as nouns are rarely a good sign in general; it’s almost always derogative.

also boys and girls would be fine except most people who use (or claim to use) boys do it in familiar sense only. they’d never call a 40 year old jacked man they don’t know a boy, but they’d easily call a grown ass woman they don’t know a girl. exceptions are some phrases like “big boy” or “my boy” in endearing sense but that’s not how “girl” is generally used, which is a substitute for “woman”.

A lot of prior military folks will use males and females just because that’s how it’s been drilled into them. Male and female latrines, not men and women’s bathrooms. Male and female barracks, not men and women’s dorms. Male and female standards, etc etc.

dehumanization is part of military. that’s not really an argument for it.

Is it not dehumanizing to call veterans psychotic? Seems a bit like kicking someone while they’re down. The military broke them enough, the last things veterans need is to be mocked, dehumanized and treated like creeps.

first of all, i didn’t call them psychotic. read it again.

second of all, you literally say they’re broken. i don’t know what to tell you.

and finally, fuck veterans, like I give a shit how they want to be treated. maybe they shouldn’t thought of that before they volunteered to kill or help kill as many brown kids as they can. unless they were drafted or something then they get a pass. sort of.

None of the veterans I know killed any brown kids. The people we shot were generally either shooting at us, or had just set off an IED with a car battery. Most of our interactions with kids involved someone getting in trouble for giving away MREs to the kids that would walk up to the vehicle.

wow #notallinvaders. i said kill or help kill. they fall into the second category. they still volunteered for unjust, illegal wars, unless you’re talking about WW2 or something… the US had no right to be in any foreign country in the last few decades.

There’s a difference between the people who have served and the insane asylum they were subjected to. There are plenty of things that meat factory does to people that shouldn’t be replicated in society, and this is the least of them.

Those are not complete sentences or even a sort of expression of any coherent potential intent of expression. Go back to English class and fix your sentences, please.

adjectives as nouns are rarely a good sign in general

I don’t think that’s true unless you mean within the context of referring to people or something, e.g. the blacks, the poors. But then stuff like “the rich” and “the unemployed” I don’t really take issue with.

yeah, you’re right but they’re two different cases. notice how when it’s right you don’t pluralize it with an -s because some adjectives have a form of a plural noun, so they don’t have a singular form: “a poor” or “a black” is just yikes. you can find words like “rich” as plural nouns apart from the adjective forms in the dictionary. you might find “female” and “black” as a noun for people too, but they should be marked offensive either directly or in usage notes.

so that’s the distinction. “black” or “female” don’t exist as plural nouns like “the rich” or “the blessed”.

interestingly enough there are exceptions. there is no plural noun “the gay” but “gays” usually isn’t offensive as a noun, but also “a gay” is weird and offensive. language is complicated.

I believe “the gays” used to be offensive, and I did notice that myself but it doesn’t make sense to met that that would be the distinction!

i just suggested it as a shorthand. the actual distinction is whether the word is generally used as a noun as well as adjective, and when it is, usually it’s used as a plural noun.

it makes sense because plural nouns usually are a quick way to refer to a section of a population that share an aspect. but using an adjective as a singular noun has the connotation of reducing someone to that one aspect of them, which is the adjective. and so using an adjective as a noun with an -s pluralization implies there’s also a singular form which is usually offensive.

language is fluid and it evolves, so nothing here is a hard rule and there will be exceptions, and things might change with time. this is mostly based on observation and convention.

I’m not convinced that there’s even a soft rule; I think it’s just a case of the one or the other way of doing it nebulously sticking, like how sometimes you form a noun with -ness and sometimes you do it with -hood. Which now I think about it is more or less what you’re saying, but I don’t think it’s done consciously at any rate.

language conventions are rarely conscious. they just happen. every now and then there’s a campaign for our against using certain words or phrases; sometimes they stick and sometimes they don’t. but those are conscious i guess. mostly though it just happens organically.

like a perfectly normal word becomes vulgar in time if enough people just say it a certain way. it’s not like people suddenly hold a meeting and decide this word is bad now. it just starts to feel like it after a while, so it eventually becomes so.

The gays is weird because like so much terminology referring to queer people it’s reclaimed. And as with all language reclaimed in or near living memory the offensive use persists. Just like how “the queer community” is neutral as is “my sister is queer”, but “fuck you queer” or “I ain’t no queer” both use the word in its unreclaimed state, so too can “the gays” go. With it I tend to be primed for someone who is either familiar with the queer community or to hear some horribly offensive shit.

The thing is we got really good at reclaiming things in a way that I don’t know of any other group being as good at

yeah it depends i guess. saying “gays and lesbians” in passing is usually fine. but still, while you could say something like “this policy is discriminatory against gays” and not get much protest, the preferred use would still be “gay people”.

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