Wouldnโ€™t they benefit from more people? Of course it would come with the condition of learning the language at an acceptable level and that being tied to residency.

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Because people fear having their culture and race replaced by immigrants. Even if theyโ€™re not overtly racist, few people wish to become a minority in โ€œtheir own country.โ€

The US is famously a melting pot, and yet we still have a bunch of descendants of white immigrants from Europe who fear that South Americans will take over; that Mexican culture will replace good old-fashioned hodge-podge Western European culture. That their language will become less dominant. That theyโ€™ll find themselves strangers in their own country.

Itโ€™s usually an indistinct fear. It seems obvious from the verbiage in the dog-whistles, but white European immigrant descendants donโ€™t want to become second-class.

Now, if we treated our own minorities well, they wouldnโ€™t be so afraid. They wouldnโ€™t be afraid that theyโ€™d be the ones with Hispanic cops kneeling on their necks; or that Hispanic immigrants would be living in giant homes and theyโ€™d themselves be the ones having to eak out a living as seasonal workers.

I think itโ€™s not despicable to want to preserve your cultural heritage, your cultural language, and to have your country legislated with the values you grew up with; but people react poorly when they think itโ€™s happening.

What I most despise in the Republicans in the US is that theyโ€™re advocating for preserving cultural values that never existed broadly in the US. The closest subculture to what theyโ€™re pushing is a return to the Confederate South: religion, and white supremacy. The Confederates got their asses handed to them, but the racist fuckers never gave up their values, most most Americans are blind to what their real agenda is. And theyโ€™ve been good insurgents, cleverly taking advantage of weak areas in our democracy to return power to a minority: themselves. Itโ€™s been said and itโ€™s true: if America was a true democracy and we selected leaders by popular vote, no Republican under their current platform would ever be president again.

Anyway, getting back to your question: immigrants bring their own culture with them, and very few completely abandon it and adopt the culture and language of their new country. This dilutes the host countryโ€™s native culture, and people are afraid of that. In the US, itโ€™s the highest form of hypocrisy, because our native culture displaced the indigenous culture, and now weโ€™re afraid of someone else doing the same to us.

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12 points

I agree with everything up until you said โ€œdilutesโ€. I would argue that immigrant cultures donโ€™t dilute the host countryโ€™s culture, they add to it. In other words, the culture that was there still exists in the same amount and in the same โ€œconcentrationโ€, and immigrants bring their culture to newly developing areas of the country/state.

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The word has negative connotations, but I stand by it. I an not saying there result isnโ€™t stronger, but if you extend cultural mixing out to the maximum - say humans and the planet survives another thousand years, and global travel is no harder than traveling to the next town over - what you end up with is homogeneity, and this would be sad, I think. Imagine it: the entire world speaking some pidgin derivative mashup of Mandarin, English, and Hindi, with essentially the same culture everywhere on the planet. Just as has already happened, languages are lost, because nobody speaks them natively anymore. All thatโ€™s left of the original cultures are some UNESCO sites and preserved old movies. I canโ€™t say the world wouldnโ€™t be stronger for it, but in the process, something irrecoverable is lost.

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2 points

Its very hard to add more of something else and not have dilution.

Take 1 litre of vodka and add 1 decilitre of water - there will be more fluid but the vodka will be?

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18 points
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framing is important though. Nobody considers a cocktail โ€˜dilutedโ€™ even if thatโ€™s technically applicable, the resultant mixture usually improves the beverage.

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2 points
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Definitely agree with your points but maybe โ€œdilutesโ€. Isnโ€™t the right term. I donโ€™t think theyโ€™re worried about their culture being โ€œwatered downโ€ or โ€œthinnerโ€, but replaced.

I had a recent conversation with my brother that fits here. We grew up the same, but he became more conservative and moved to a conservative area, or maybe I became more liberal and moved to a liberal area. Iโ€™ve been exploring cooking, and actually this has been several conversations where Iโ€™m excited over learning about preparing a different cuisine, being able to appreciate what that brings, and he responds with โ€œwhy canโ€™t you make regular American food?โ€ โ€œDilutingโ€ the cuisine we grew up with would be to use salsa instead of ketchup or mayo. But I have entire meals replaced with new and different. I have a much bigger spice cupboard full of new and different. I make meals that he doesnโ€™t understand, doesnโ€™t know how to prepare, so he gets defensive about what he is comfortable with being replaced

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I donโ€™t disagree. In fact, I think a strength of US culture is the diversity in embraces. I do feel sorry that this came at the cost of indigenous cultures, but the end result has been a wonderful melting pot, ruined only by Laissez-Faire economics and some badly wrong turns in how we do Capitalism. Plus the inherent bigotry that hypocrite descendants of immigrants are unable to recognize. Or, worse maybe, an attitude of โ€œwe stole this land fair and square, and now itโ€™s ourโ€™s and everyone else fuck off!โ€

All Iโ€™m saying is that my personal preference would be that this not happen to the entire world. Iโ€™d like to visit Germany and see a historic Germany, not another version of America with different preserved buildings. Iโ€™d love to visit the Basque region and immerse myself in Basque culture, not some mashup globalized culture selling Basque trinkets, which no-one uses at home anymore, to tourists. Itโ€™s selfish, I know.

Edit 2024-07-04 relevant comic

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1 point

The difference is US culture is bland and stupid. Its con artists, police and shitty corporate bullshit. In fact the last time the US lost a major cultural element it was slavery. I think its about time ditch some more bullshit. The con artists need to be tried for fraud, the police need to be disarmed, the supreme court dismantled and the corporations razed.

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