Telegram CEO Pavel Durov Arrested in France(www.reuters.com)

posted 2 months ago

mrinfinity@lemmy.world

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Noxious@fedia.io

-34 points

2 months ago

Hell yeah. I always hated Telegram, because of its countless false promises, misleading claims, bad encryption (which isn’t even enabled by default) and shady background.

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rdri@lemmy.world

19 points

2 months ago

That bad encryption was not cracked for now. The other one, that is used to process chats between 2 users in end to end mode, can’t be enabled by default because it assumes no history is kept and no support for group chats.

Also, the arrest doesn’t seem to be related to any of the things you mentioned. If anything it shows there are no ways for (certain) governments to affect the messenger, for now.

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Noxious@fedia.io

9 points

2 months ago

That bad encryption was not cracked for now

There is no encryption by default if you haven’t noticed. There only the pseudo-E2EE which has been proven to have critical weaknesses: https://eprint.iacr.org/2015/1177.pdf

can’t be enabled by default

Yes it can, every proper E2EE messenger works like that. Signal, Threema, hell even WhatsApp uses E2EE by default.

no support for group chats

Signal has had group chats for many years now. WhatsApp uses the same encryption protocol and it also works just fine. Stop spreading misinformation, and use Signal if you want an actual secure, end-to-end encrypted, open and transparent messenger.

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rdri@lemmy.world

2 points

2 months ago

has been proven to have critical weaknesses

Those are not critical, just some aspects being below some arbitrary expectational values. Also it seems there is still no proofs those vector attacks are being used at all.

Yes it can

They chose to target convenience over max security. Shoving strongest options to every user by default is agaiantt that. Reasons include: no history is being saved in this mode, and the desktop client doesn’t support it.

Signal has had group chats for many years now

Just because it was implemented by others doesn’t mean it’s a way to go for everyone. From what I understand, e2e in group chats means that there is going to be a transaction of keys between all members of the chat on adding any new member, and/or on new message, which excessively increases the burden on clients and servers in case of big active chats.

You can ask telegram to implement that, but you can’t blame it for keeping it behind some gates. Telegram got implemented e2e between 2 users before other messengers got it working in any form of group chats.

and use Signal

I’ll think about it if they ditch electron.

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Noxious@fedia.io

1 point

2 months ago

Also it seems there is still no proofs those vector attacks are being used at all.

Ah yes, definitely go with a messenger that has known vulnerabilities in its crappy encryption protocol, instead of one with an actual secure E2EE implementation.

no history is being saved in this mode

You can still make encrypted backups of encrypted messages, as can be seen on WhatsApp or Signal

and the desktop client doesn’t support it

I don’t know what you mean, both Signal and WhatsApp have managed to ship desktop clients with full E2EE support for years now. Only Telegram is too incompetent to do that.

Telegram got implemented e2e between 2 users before other messengers got it working in any form of group chats

Just stop lying. Telegram Secret Chats have been introduced in 2017, both Signal and WhatsApp have had E2EE (including for group chats!) for much longer. Signal has had (encrypted) group chats in 2014, back when it was called TextSecure: https://signal.org/blog/the-new-textsecure/ And WhatsApp followed in 2016.

I’ll think about it if they ditch electron.

Are you mad that Signal is focusing on privacy and security by improving their encryption protocol, instead of wasting time on some UI garbage? This shows your priorities really well. Keep using unencrypted Telegram, for the cool stickers and convenient cloud backup, and keep in mind that Telegram can read all of your messages, as well as hand them over to governments.

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rdri@lemmy.world

1 point

2 months ago

Ah yes, definitely go with a messenger that has known vulnerabilities in its crappy encryption protocol, instead of one with an actual secure E2EE implementation.

Feel free to go any way you want. I’m not asking you to use telegram.

You can still make encrypted backups

Spend time for that, and keep them where? Maybe also need a feature to sync them between mobile and desktop?

Only Telegram is too incompetent to do that.

Not an implementation issue but a trust issue.

Just stop lying. Telegram Secret Chats have been introduced in 2017

https://telegram.org/evolution see October 2013.

both Signal and WhatsApp have had E2EE (including for group chats!) for much longer.

Whatsapp had them inctorudec in 2016.

Are you mad that Signal is focusing on privacy and security by improving their encryption protocol, instead of wasting time on some UI garbage?

I’m perfectly fine with that. More apps using electron means less chance for my pc to run garbage applications on a regular basis.

keep in mind that Telegram can read all of your messages, as well as hand them over to governments.

Keep in mind that any person in your secret chats can read your message, copy or screenshot it and hand it to anyone else. Those people know much better if you’re doing anything sketchy (or something actually good but against their beliefs), than an app developer.

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rottingleaf@lemmy.world

-2 points

2 months ago

That bad encryption was not cracked for now.

There’s no need if you control the server.

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pressanykeynow@lemmy.world

3 points

2 months ago

End to end encryption was created specifically so that the server could not access the data.

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rottingleaf@lemmy.world

5 points

2 months ago

So how many people use E2EE with Telegram?

And their ToS forbids alternative clients doing that. Say, using Pidgin with PGP or OTR. Since Pidgin plugins for TG and these exist, it’s not a limitation for me, but most people, again, don’t use Pidgin to chat in TG.

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rdri@lemmy.world

1 point

2 months ago

Alternate clients are blocked from using that functionality because they may include ability to capture data somewhere, for example taking a screenshot of a protected chat.

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rottingleaf@lemmy.world

3 points

2 months ago

I meant normal E2EE, not TG’s “encrypted chats”.

And it’s not “that functionality”, it’s literally encoding messages into another layer over TG being forbidden.

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2 points

2 months ago

Stop pretending that Telegram cares about the security of their users, because they clearly aren’t, as can be seen in their shitty encryption protocol, and the fact that by default all messages are stored on their servers in plain text

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5 points

2 months ago

That’s right, but it’s not properly implemented in Telegram. https://eprint.iacr.org/2015/1177.pdf

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catastrophicblues@lemmy.ca

9 points

2 months ago

You haven’t read the article or the summary from the comments, have you?

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