It most certainly is true: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Use_of_human_shields_by_Hamas
Doesn’t excuse the Israeli administration, but Hamas 100% uses human shields, schools included.
I will need to see concrete evidence that these people were, in fact, members of the terrorist resistance before I believe claims that they were. However, we are currently assuming that all claims of terrorists being present are true for every strike. I would like you to know that I selected these strikes at random.
- This claim states that there were 19 terrorists and 93 total killed at the Al-Tabi’in mosque and school on 08/10/24. Survivors state that most of the casualties were women and children. That means there was a 79.6% civilian casualty rate.
- This claim states that there were 9 confirmed Hamas casualties of 40 killed at a school in the Nuseirat refugee camp on 06/06/24. The casualties were described as children and elderly, and this strike was verified by the source as using US munitions. That means there was a 77.5% civilian casualty rate.
- This source claims that there have been (as of 07/06/24) 343 IDF soldiers killed and 38,000 confirmed Palestinian deaths with Israel claiming 1/3 of deaths are combatants. 66% civilian casualty rate since October 7th.
I will ask again: what is the acceptable child to terrorist death ratio?
I will ask again: what is the acceptable child to terrorist death ratio?
I read earlier this year that Israel considered 100 civilian deaths for one Hamas fighter a fair trade. I can’t find the exact article, but it was about their use of AI in deciding targets. According to this article a “10% failure rate” is totally acceptable. So, anywhere between 9-1 and 100-1 is within parameters. Children are a points multiplier.
10% failure rate implies they fail to hit a millitant 1-10 times no?
I would assume success isn’t bombing random people.
I will ask again: what is the acceptable child to terrorist death ratio?
just to humor you, statistically you could run a theoretical simulation of whether or not getting rid of hamas entirely now, saves more potential human lives, than simply letting them exist. It’s very possible (since this is the middle east) that it would statistically make more sense to completely get rid of them now. Such that they cannot exist in a similar capacity in the future.
Gaza is one of the most densely populated areas on the planet…
There’s no where anyone can be that doesn’t have a shit ton of civilians around, and due to the treatment of people who live in Gaza by Israel… A lot of people in Gaza are children.
That’s the whole reason the international community has been saying for almost a year you can’t just flatten everything.
But they keep doing it. Because Israel sees civilian deaths in Gaza as a feature, not a bug.
The question they asked is in presumption for this to be true.
Your non-answer speaks volumes.
What is the acceptable child to terrorist death ratio?
If you don’t know, the rational answer is 0 for the same reason why we dont let suspected pedophiles adopt children as a sacrifice to catch a bigger pedo ring.
The question is kind of bullshit though. It’s meant to either get the other side to have an emotional response and say none or to be what you want perceived as a piece of shit and give a number. Let’s try it on another question.
How many child deaths are permissible before we ban bicycles? Cars? Jump rope? Pools? If it’s not 0, how dare you sir or ma’am. We’re talking about children here!
There is a reason certain buildings are off-limits unless it starts being used by the opposing force’s fighters. How would you fight a war against someone if they could just strike from an ambulance and then drive off, scott-free?
Also just want to throw out there that this type of thing is exactly what those who would use human shields want you to do. “Back off or we will put more civilians in front of us.” Then they will publicize the aftermath to help their propaganda war.
If you don’t know, the rational answer is 0 for the same reason why we dont let suspected pedophiles adopt children as a sacrifice to catch a bigger pedo ring.
the rational answer for “how many deaths in war are ok” is also zero, but that’s literally never happened.
War incurs casualty, and it also incurs civilian casualty, it’s simply impossible to have a 0% rate.
why we dont let suspected pedophiles adopt children as a sacrifice to catch a bigger pedo ring.
this is also stupid, how do you think they catch pedophiles? Most of the time it’s through CSAM. Physical or digital, and if it’s physical, they’re producing it, and if it’s digital, it’s being sourced somewhere. Those sources are a real easy get in exchange for a potentially lighter sentence.
I am also anti war so yes. I also dont judge life based on age but emotional sentiment does spread the ideal of stop killing eachother please.
The practice you described while i know this true in the US it may not be legal or moral elsewhere
I believe Europe has specifically forbidden “entrapment”
Entrapment: Law enforcement must avoid entrapment, which involves inducing someone to commit a crime they would not otherwise have committed. This is generally illegal in Europe and could lead to cases being thrown out in court.
Acceptable child to terrorist death ratio is legitimately 2:1 and accept 3:1 only if we get to eat the children afterwards.
The wiki says they are accused of it but lists many reports which found no evidence of this. In the current conflict there are apparently a couple of cases with hostages.
The big problem with most of these claims is that it’s “proximate” shielding being alleged, which is not when you are literally shielding someone (as in the recent cases with Israel using Palestinians, and assumedly those with Hamas using the hostages), but when you are just sat at home, in school, whatever, going about your usual business totally unaware. But you are a “shield” because the enemy decides they want to attack something near you.
This quote really sums up the rhetorical strategy:
“Israeli citizens in Tel Aviv are not classified as shields when Hamas launches rockets towards the Israel Defense Forces military command headquarters located in the city center. By sharp contrast, Palestinian civilians are cast as human shields when Israel bombs Hamas command centers and military infrastructures in Gaza. In other words, if Hamas kills Israeli civilians, it is to blame, and if Israel kills Palestinian civilians, then Hamas is also to blame, since, at least ostensibly, it is Hamas that has deployed these civilians as shields.”
It is a trick so that Israel can avoid responsibility for it’s actions. I’m not saying you are supporting Israel or denying their crimes (I know you explicitly didn’t), but this rhetoric is WAY more common than genuine instances of human shielding, which thus far has primarily been done by Israel, not Hamas.
Likewise, this isn’t excusing Hamas. Fuck them. But aside from the case with the hostages (didn’t check the reference but I trust it), there is very little evidence that Hamas does this. Most of the time it is an outright deception.
Edit: this is from the report cited by wikipedia:
A witness said that as Israeli forces advanced, the fighters phoned the Israeli police using one of the hostages as an interpreter, identified themselves as from the Qassam Brigades, and told the police that they would shoot those they held if the Israeli forces fired on them. During the standoff, the attackers forced about half the hostages into the yard of the home between Israeli forces and the fighters, according to two witnesses the New York Times interviewed. A man the attackers said was their commander took off his clothing and took Yasmin Porat, one of the hostages, outside to shield him as he surrendered to the Israelis. After the fighters fired again at the Israeli forces, an Israeli tank opened fire on the home. The fighters were killed, as well as 12 hostages who were killed in the crossfire.
So clearly it does happen. But cases are rare and on both sides of the conflict
when Hamas launches rockets towards the Israel Defense Forces military command headquarters located in the city center.
Mate, they lob unguided rockets in roughly the right direction. They are not targeting jak shit.
Cool wikipedia article. But you should check out current reality sometime.
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_shields_in_the_Israeli–Palestinian_conflict
- https://truthout.org/articles/israel-systematically-uses-gaza-children-as-human-shields-rights-group-finds/
- https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-07-01/ty-article/report-israeli-soldiers-filmed-using-detainees-in-gaza-as-human-shields/00000190-6f2b-d6fc-afba-ef7b8ad20000
From you first link:
Hamas has also been accused of using human shields strategically by the UN Secretary General,[16] the European Union,[17] the United States,[18][19] along with Israel.[20] Launching rockets and positioning military infrastructure in civilian areas has been observed in various conflicts, including the 2008, 2014, and 2023 Israel–Hamas wars although is not considered as human shielding according to human rights organizations.[7] These actions have been criticized by various international bodies, including Amnesty International, which has documented instances where Palestinian militias stored munitions in and launched rockets from or nearby civilian structures.
Your own excerpt says they were accused, and that it has not been recognized as Human Shielding.
Where as I’m certain I’ve seen videos of the Israeli military walking naked Palestinians through mine fields, shelled buildings, and into tunnels. I will not look it up again, I just simply wanted to point out that you’re terrible at reading.
Israel also uses human shields.
But even if hamas did, that doesn’t mean it is the case here. Just like how it wasn’t the case when they said there is a military base under a hospital, only to find a single tunnel used to smuggle in medicine after they completely bombed it down, including its residents.
The human shield lie is dead. The majority of structures in Gaza have been bombed and rendered uninhabitable. Israel is just destroying everything indiscriminately and killing anything that moves outside the designated camps.
Was Hamas using over half of all structures in Gaza as operating bases? Get real.
It’s already known that Hamas uses tunnels, why would they even be in the buildings at this point? This is just a campaign of total destruction.
Don’t spread genocide denial.
Was Hamas using over half of all structures in Gaza as operating bases? Get real.
you realize operating bases are probably in the tunnels right. They certainly aren’t above ground.
This also ignores stationing for the militants, and potential hideouts, for things like… Bombs.
They aren’t bombing the tunnels, they’re just blowing up hospitals and apartments and schools. The tunnels are unaffected.
Why would they still roof knock if they indiscriminately bomb everything?
They stopped roof knocking as standard policy back in October. Try to keep up.