Sure, implementing communism would take a long time, but I don’t see how they’re working towards it instead of just improving on socialism.
What do you mean by this? Specifically “improving on socialism”? Reading this I get the impression that you don’t know what you’re talking about, but would like to give you a chance to clarify.
I don’t know what AES is
Actually existing socialism. One party proletarian states lead by Marxists-Leninists.
Yes, they’re socialist I don’t see how this book on socialism relates to the topic, which is how any system you can’t implement is utopic.
Good that we agree that China, Soviet Russia, Cuba etc. Are Socialist. Since they obv were able to implement socialism they’re not utopian. I recommend the book because I wasn’t sure you were aware of that
Volunteer militias. Stateless doesn’t mean people can’t organize. This applies to many kinds of work as well: roles on the railway have to constantly communicate with each other.
Sounds utopian and not very effective to me when you have countries that have conscription and Military industrie. Can you give examples that exist today and how it can defense itself against such adversaries?
For example, China ended most collective ownership and switched to market socialism. It works, and the government regulates it quite well, but you also have a pretty authoritarian state that keeps consolidating its power. Now the market’s taken for granted; its principles haven’t changed towards communism in the decades since it’s been implemented. That seems like abandoning the idea of implementing communism and just maintaining their socialist market economy for now.
Since they obv were able to implement socialism they’re not utopian.
I was talking about communism and how you claim that, for defense reasons, it can only be implemented globally. I think we agree that socialism doesn’t dismantle the state and isn’t utopic. I think we’ve been collectively bamboozled.
On military industry, of course that still exists while stateless. I don’t need to stress how many tankies and War Thunder players there are online who’d happily start working on building or R&Ding military stuff. It’s no different than any other industry except the massive amount of government funding, which would be useless in a stateless society where people are motivated by better means.
The United States has voluntary militaries and militias. China also has volunteer service, albeit de facto. These are some of the best militaries in the world.
China ended most collective ownership and switched to market socialism
The definition of socialism is when workers are the dominant class in society (i.e. the owners of the means of production aka collective ownership). So this sentence doesn’t make sense to me.
Also China can be described as markert socialist but more accurately they have a mixed economy of SOEs, worker coops (e.g. Huawei), and privately run/capitalist enterprises (that have party members on board of directors).
pretty authoritarian state
Any state in the world is authoritarian. Because ANY type of organization requires authority. (Even volunteer militias). Read Engels Essay “On authority” for the Argument being made
Now the market’s taken for granted; its principles haven’t changed towards communism in the decades since it’s been implemented. That seems like abandoning the idea of implementing communism and just maintaining their socialist market economy for now.
Ok basically you’re asking when Xi is going to press the communism button and I agree that they are keeping it at socialism for now.
Again communism is a higher stage and can’t exist within a context of other countries being able to organize state power to invade a “communist” country.
I was talking about communism and how you claim that, for defense reasons, it can only be implemented globally.
I mean you know what class and class interests are, right? When you have landowners and capitalists and states that represent their interests, they will inevitably attack.
I think we agree that socialism doesn’t dismantle the state and isn’t utopic. I think we’ve been collectively bamboozled
Bamboozled by whom? And what are we being bamboozled about? I’m so confused by this
Socialism will eventually dismantle the state and it wither away, when all contradictions and class interests have been resolved. (The state is an extension of class interests after all). You mention that socialism existed for decades and nothing happens, when capitalism, feudalism, slavery each existed for hundreds of years. Socialism is in its infancy still and has been struging to be born from the old system over the last decades (cold war, Operation Condor, Operation gładio, etc)
Yeah, I’ll concede that market socialism was the wrong word. I swear I realized that and edited it before replying, bu apparently that didn’t make it.
Saying that every state is authoritarian is missing the point. When we say that a state is authoritarian, we mean that relatively, the people are much more oppressed by the elite. Even anarchists only oppose hierarchical authority.
what are we being bamboozled about?
There was a misunderstanding where I said that anything you can’t implement is utopic and you assumed that I meant socialism.
Again communism is a higher stage and can’t exist within a context of other countries being able to organize state power to invade a “communist” country.
Can we talk about volunteer militias?
Socialism will eventually dismantle the state and it wither away, when all contradictions and class interests have been resolved.
But are they? Yes, China has lifted a ton of people out of poverty, but as long as most employees don’t own the means of production, they are being oppressed, and the hands of the means of production don’t seem to have been transferring.
