Yup, Oakland and everything in that area counts. I’ll even throw in Sacramento.

I’m sure there are decent spots here and there, but I really don’t like visiting any part of it. My in-laws really want us to move there, but I’ve told them CA is off the table. I hate the traffic, people, smog (LA only), and sheer amount of litter. And yes, all of those apply to SF, except the smog. Oh, and transit totally sucks, though it’s a bit better in SF.

The weather is and geography are both nice, but the rest absolutely sucks. If they fix their transit issues, I’d consider visiting more often, and maybe even moving there. But as long as I have to deal with the sprawl and all the nonsense that comes with it, I’m not going to.

I’m currently in Utah, and apart from seasonal smog (gets really bad during inversion season), it’s a really nice place to live. Transit kinda sucks, but at least the transit that’s there is usable and goes to good places. I’m probably going to move away eventually (looking at North Carolina), but I’m really enjoying the mountains for now.