Unpopular opinion time:
People pay to see and enjoy listening to a symphony, not listen to political opinion. And while I’m entirely on the side of the protestors, and stand firmly against the atrocities committed by Israel, I’d be against this at a symphony as well.
I know it’s impossible to comprehend, but sometimes, people need a bread from the negativity in the world. We don’t go to political rallies to hear how our congressmen and women enjoy listening to Taylor Swift for a reason…
You may now begin your downvotes.
Isn’t the point of protest to not let people forget about things? How easy would it be in the west to not notice, the media certainly isn’t keeping up on it. Every time I see one of these I think, that’s a braver person than me, and thank fucking god for the Streisand effect. No downvote, but strong disagree.
So if a protest isn’t disruptive, it isn’t effective? I think you need to look up what protest means.
The point of protest is literally exactly that. The point of protest is to make the message impossible to ignore.
I hate the message you started with. But I agree with this. These modern protesters are scum bags who often are a major reason why their own cause never makes much progress.
Yes I do think that. Protest tactics change but they seem to gravitate toward noncompliance and, yes, disruption. I honestly can’t think of a successful protest that was all roses and hugs. Could be missing something.
When did they say it had to be disruptive? They just said the point was to not let people forget.
If you consider the statement “x is bad” to be disruptive then I wonder what you think a “non-disruptive protest” actually is. Thoughts and prayers?
people need a bread from the negativity
Freudian typo: as long as people have “bread and circuses” it’s surprising what you can get away with.
WDYT about this bit of the article?
Gillham also performed a song by György Ligeti, where the pianist had noted Ligeti was from a Holocaust-surviving family and he spoke about the political background of the piece.
I think that’s irrelevant to the point. He was not there to protest events in Gaza. He was there to perform music.
End of story.
The quote isn’t about Gaza! It was fine to be “political” about holocaust survivors but not Gaza. That’s the point.
I wish you bland music in your future. Bury your head in the sand and enjoy it.
It is widely acknowledged that external international pressure was one of the major factors in ending the apartheid regime. Therefore, it’s worth considering the impact of raising awareness among international audiences, even those not politically engaged, to put pressure on Israel to end their genocide.
On one hand, you have the discomfort felt by attendees to a live symphony performance in Melbourne, Australia having to listen to the pianist spend 30 seconds introducing the song:
Over the last 10 months, Israel has killed more than one hundred Palestinian journalists. A number of these have been targeted assassinations of prominent journalists as they were travelling in marked press vehicles or wearing their press jackets. The killing of journalists is a war crime in international law, and it is done in an effort to prevent the documentation and broadcasting of war crimes to the world.
In addition to the role of journalists who bear witness, the word Witness in Arabic is **Shaheed, which also means Martyr.
On the other hand, you have the discomfort felt by the victims of war crimes and genocide perpetuated by Israel.
Personally, I don’t think it’s that hard to judge where the cost/benefit analysis goes on that, but of course it’s a personal value judgment. Perhaps you don’t hold the same values I do, or not to the same degree, but for me, it’s obvious that using your platform to raise awareness and to put pressure on Israel is the right thing to do.
The venue made the right move. They canceled him, and now people like you and me are hearing his message.
Everyone wins, right? Or are you not happy unless everyone believes what you believe?
Streisand Effect. I agree with your opinion, if they are hired and paid to preform at a venue, then that type of work should be free of personal message or bias.
If they had paid for use of the venue(basically a tour or show) then that would be a platform they are welcome to explain their message.
That being said, no idea why your are being down voted, you are having a friendly and respectful conversation here, and even I can see merits in your debate.
The original point you made was that the musician didn’t do the right thing, and I was explaining why I thought you were wrong. We weren’t talking about whether it was right or wrong for the venue to deplatform him.
I’m happy to talk about that, but I am curious about your thoughts in reaction to my original response
Anytime someone says they believe in the genocide in gaza I have to wonder what other antisemitic conspiracy theories they believe.
Do you believe ex-KGB agent and neo soviet klepto-fascist President of Russia, Vladimer Putin, when he claims zionist Ukraine is committing genocide against Russians in the Donbas?
Do you believe republican state representative, KKK grand wizard, and christian fascist David Duke when he says zionists are committing genocide against white Americans?
If not, then I don’t know why you believe ex-KGB agent and islamo-fascist president of Palestine Mohammad Abbas when he says zionists are committing genocide against Palestine.
Let’s be real, a lot of people are saying it’s genocide. I’d say, if Israel stopped shooting journalists, even more people would be saying it.
First of all, let’s not conflate criticism of Israel with anti-semitism. I am an ardent opponent of anti-semitism, and while criticism of Israel may well be used as a dog-whistle among anti-semites, that doesn’t mean that all criticism of Israel is inherently anti-semitic. Indeed, I am very happy to know that there are many Jewish people who oppose Israel’s genocide who I can stand with.
As for your question - I don’t believe any individual person’s claims of genocide, but rather consider the evidence. These are the facts as I know them:
- Israeli politicians have gone on-record, several times, all the way back to David Ben-Gurion, about their intent to, at the very least, displace, the arab population in and around Israel. In more modern times, the rhetoric is far stronger and very dehumanising.
- Israel has continually treated Arab Israelis as, at best, second class citizens, denying them citizenship and property rights, displacing them, causing them to flee in conflict and refusing them the right to return to their homes.
- Israel built a wall around Gaza, tightly controlling the flow of people, food, water, medicine and other forms of aid into Gaza. The West bank, Gaza and East Jerusalem have been illegally occupied by Israel since 1971.
- A series of conflicts have seen Israeli employing overwhelming and disproportionate military force against Arabs indiscriminately, bombing schools, hospitals, residences, and destroying vital infrastructure, as well as maiming, killing or imprisoning journalists, human rights monitors, aid workers, and so on.
I could go on, but honestly, that’s enough for me to call it like I see it. Israel’s grand ambitions extend at least as far as driving all Arabs out of the territory immediately surrounding Israel, from the banks of the River Jordan to the Mediterranean sea, and possibly further. They are willing to go to any lengths to achieve that goal, including war crimes, crimes against humanity, extrajudicial killings, mass murder, bombing civilians, destroying schools, hospitals, mosques, regardless of who is inside, they’re willing to illegally push people out of their homes, bulldoze Palestinian settlements, steal, kill, and lie about it the whole time they’re doing it.
Tell me, when was the last time you went to a concert?
Because you should know, it’s very common for someone to talk a little before the concert or before the piece about the piece itself, what inspired it, how it fits into the programme, etc.
That’s what he did here. He explained what inspired the writing of this piece. No different to a conductor explaining that Shostakovich’s 7th Symphony was dedicated to the city of Leningrad, which at the time it was premiered was being besieged by the Nazis. Or explaining how his 9th Symphony was a deliberate mockery of earlier composers’ grand 9th symphonies, as a way to subvert expectations placed on him by Stalin’s regime. Or how Beethoven’s 3rd Symphony was written at first in honour of Napoleon, and then later changed to “celebrate the memory of a great man” after Napoleon went against Beethoven’s republican idealism and crowned himself emperor.
Music has always been political, and in modern times no concert is complete without at least some discussion about the context in which the piece was written. That should be as true for a piece written to commemorate victims of a modern-day war as it is for mid-20th century or early 19th century pieces.
And how many concert venues have canceled acts because of their political affiliation/things they said/things they did.
MANY.
As is their right to do so. If you want to proclaim your support for a cause, do it on your fucking website. Not to a captive audience that didn’t pay to put up with it.
This is the most stupid take I read today and I was browsing Reddit earlier.
