Well, Mozilla seems to be making some pretty questionable decisions, So I’m considering switching browsers for the third (Is it the third?) time. The thing is, I really like the way Firefox works, so I’ve been trying out the more famous Forks like Waterfox and Librewolf, although I’m going for Floorp. However, I’m wondering: is using a fork enough? I mean, they are Forks maintained by other people, but is there a chance that whatever Mozilla does to Firefox could affect those Forks? Should I jump to a totally different browser like Vivaldi?
Vivaldi is a no go, it is proprietary software and also based in chromium. I’ve had similar thought process to yours and I am also using Floorp. Librewolf is great but too privacy hardened for the common lay user. These forks are cleaning the s*** out of firefox so no need to worry.
Nothing questionable that Mozilla does can affect the forks, as long as the forks have enough manpower to sustain themselves. There are, in fact, a few examples of projects with questionable leadership getting abandoned by their userbase, as everyone migrates to the fork.
I think what you need to worry about is whether the fork you’re using has enough momentum and developer time that it’s going to stay alive. That’s a concern whether or not you have a concern that the central leadership is going to do something obscene.
Except if they start to enshittify the gecko engine itself, like Google did with Manifest V3. There isn’t a fork out there afaik that has the main power and expertise to maintain the complicated beast that is a browser engine
Huh?
Manifest v3 is not the rendering engine. The issue with manifest v3 is that the extension format is changing, so it’ll be more difficult to make ad blocker extensions work on Chrome. But a Chromium fork that is focused on privacy, of which there are several, and an ad blocker of which there are several, want to work together to make sure that their ad blocker is still working on the Chromium fork in question, it’s hard for me to see it being insurmountably difficult for them to collaborate on an API that will let it happen.
It’s not automatic, it can be difficult since they’re diverging from Chromium. But it is not on the same scale as trying to maintain a divergent browser engine.
Yea, I wasnt entirely clear, I brought up Manifest v3 as a “this is already complicated, and a browser engine is even more complicated” example
No Chromium fork maintains Mv2 anyways even though it is easier, and yes some do have their own builtin AdBlock and are able to function well that way. But I do not consider that ideal, one would be entirely dependent on their AdBlock implementation where as if a fork maintains Mv2 then you would be able to just change your extension if you don’t like something about it
Floorp and Zen are to Firefox what Vivaldi is to Chrome.
They provide a better UI and other features and strip out a lot of the bad stuff from the parent browser.
But fundamentally, Floorp and Zen and Vivaldi would not continue very long if the upstream decided to suddenly stop producing code, or altered their codebase in a significant manner. (This is what killed Palemoon and Seamonkey). This is always a threat.
So really, it’s a shit situation for browsers right now. Just choose a browser engine and then pick whatever UI you like the most on top of it.
I’m optimistic that Servo turns out to be the new Mozilla without repeating its mistakes. It should be the reference implementation browser upon which everything will rebase and it should remain non-profit. This was the original goal of open source Mozilla 25 years ago but then the techbro crew rolled in and started grifting.
(I’m also aware that WebKit still exists but Gnome Web is seemingly the only browser built with it and there are no extensions).
Today the Mozilla Corporation is just a place for the already wealthy to funnel money into their golden parachutes. It’s a grift. Personally I think it’s time to move on. Last week I pulled the plug, deleted my ~/.mozilla directory, so for the first time in a quarter century I don’t have anything Mozilla-related installed.
What email client do you use? I’ve been unhappy with Thunderbird but haven’t looked too hard at replacements yet
About ten years ago I was really hesitant on claws because at that time the interface looked ugly and extremely dated, but I gave it a shot and found that once I got past that, it works perfectly for me, it did everything I needed it to do, and with one exception it still does. The interface has not had a facelift in the decade since, so it is ten years more dated than it was back then, but I’ve had so few other complaints that the ugliness is now endearing.
The one issue is that my work uses office365, and for a while I thought it just wasn’t going to work with claws, but at some point I discovered a miraculous piece of FOSS called davmail (in the AUR for arch, if you use debian it’s in the main repositories) which allows you to access microsoft email through any client.
–Gnome Web from Flathub
–Chromium in the Debian repo
–Chromium in the CalyxOS build
I would love to use Vivaldi and this is likely the best option left since it’s all the old Opera devs, but FFS just make it libre software guys. They seem to be financially stable with their team of like 30 people and run one of the largest Mastodon instances and have a great community.
Its got the best interface out of any of the Chrome reskins, especially with the left side tabs. They are trolling Mozilla right now with the whole, “we are the only browser not run by a marketing company or trying to build AI into the browser.”
But for me it being closed is a non-starter.
Like for fucks sake just make it libre software. Brave is open and literally nobody is building on top of it (morally bankrupt company though), what does Vivaldi have to lose by becoming libre software? They have nothing to lose and a competitive advantage to gain by becoming libre. There’s literally a community waiting to embrace you.
FWIW, I am kind of behind the curve. I used the Mozilla Suite from Milestone 18 all the way until it was SeaMonkey and didn’t switch until 2009 or so; then Firefox/Thunderbird until earlier this month. So if you have suggestions, I’m open.
(I’m also aware that WebKit still exists but Gnome Web is seemingly the only browser built with it and there are no extensions).
The engine behind Safari? That is one of the most used browsers today, even moreso than Firefox?
I’ve tried many but waterfox has been my home since earlier this year. it comes configured out of the box with about the privacy settings I’d normally use, as well as my preferred userchrome built in.
So I’m considering switching browsers for the third (Is it the third?) time.
I don’t think switching browsers is a big deal. Obviously switching every day would be a burden and being forced to switch is annoying, but I don’t think the switch has to be a big all or nothing.
I do think Firefox or one of it’s derivatives are probably the best choice, but I’d say be flexible. I use Firefox for the majority of my mobile browsing, but Chime sneaks in depending on the task. On my laptop I use Chrome most of the time, but I’ve also got Firefox open for others. Perhaps that’s insane, but it works for me.
If you like Firefox, keep using Firefox. If you want to try a derivative, test them out. If they suck in 6 months, try something new. Try a bunch of new things.
At the end of the day the best option is the browser experience you like best.
